Col Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Slow flash has a deeper tone, having less aluminium (20%) makes it cheaper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Then why are you replying 3 times in this topic? LOL! For the same reason that I only have 6 kids, not thousands. I only made 6 kids so I shouldn't be any good at raising them right? I only make smaller reports so I don't know how to make them? I have made plenty of cylinder shells with smaller bottom shots, the principals are exactly the same weather I roll up enough newspaper to make a 4" cylinder with a 50g bottom shot or a 4" shell with a 3" bottom shot. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Dude I really don't follow you, but I don't really care actually. It's always the same, only words, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Dude I really don't follow you, but I don't really care actually. It's always the same, only words, nothing more. Yup, you're right, only words, nothing more. Oh, maybe an innovative design or two, perhaps a few tools that have never been designed before, maybe a hand in a revolutionary test stand. Pretty much zero. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Maybe you should focus more on that than instead of EVERY topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyros Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Hi! I got news quite a while back from NitroParis that they are distributor of this stuff, I guess they have it on their website too.Anyway, this isn't any new concept at all, such grades of Aluminium where discussed for example in articles in the Journal of Pyrotechnics years ago. We tried it but I frankly see (for us) no use in it. It's much more expensive, which is a thing I have to take in mind too manufacturing commercially, and as we fill our salutes with unmixed components that get mixed in the finished and closed shell anyway, in the end both ways there is a paper cylinder in my hands or in storage that will go boom in case of fire, accident etc. So...... Edited October 5, 2012 by pyros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredhappy Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) #pyros : I agree. I use binary mixing method for all my salutes/flash inserts and it works very well. I have made quite a few binary mixed 5"round salutes with 500/600 grams of 7/3, and they all performed reliably. Of course, for safety a proper amount of pasting and a reliable passfire are a must. Also, the blue aluminium mixtures need lots of containment to produce a nice deep tone. With 7/3 relatively thin casings suffice. I have some worries about ignitability too in regard to the blue stuff. Since I'm guessing it needs more activation energy, I feel this also increases the risk on duds. Nobody wants duds with salutes.... If one wants to use a relatively "tame"mix, nitrate based flash with adequate containment also does the job nicely. Nitrate flash ignites very easily. Edited October 5, 2012 by fredhappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Maybe you should focus more on that than instead of EVERY topic Sorry Freaky, I'm here to stay and will post where I wish. You are welcome to leave if I irritate you though. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mia Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 #pyros : I agree. I use binary mixing method for all my salutes/flash inserts and it works very well. I have made quite a few binary mixed 5"round salutes with 500/600 grams of 7/3, and they all performed reliably. Of course, for safety a proper amount of pasting and a reliable passfire are a must. Also, the blue aluminium mixtures need lots of containment to produce a nice deep tone. With 7/3 relatively thin casings suffice. I have some worries about ignitability too in regard to the blue stuff. Since I'm guessing it needs more activation energy, I feel this also increases the risk on duds. Nobody wants duds with salutes.... If one wants to use a relatively "tame"mix, nitrate based flash with adequate containment also does the job nicely. Nitrate flash ignites very easily.Blue aluminium is not a tame mix it is simply far safer to work with no nitrate flash can compete with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkokpyro Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) I think it would be helpful if this so called 'Blue Aluminium' had a spec as in mesh size breakdown, particle shape etc and a manufacturers name associated with it as do other commercialAluminium products purchased for pyrotechnic use from reliable suppliers. Armed with such information this, as of now, unproven and unspecified type of Aluminium can be identified as being what it is being claimed to be sold as. As for the safety claims being thrown about until I see some comprehensive and empirical testing of the product by someone competent I would take the claims made for it with a pinch of saltand just use it as you would German Dark/Indian Black observing the same care when mixing, storing etc. Better the devil you know than the one you don't in my opinion. Edited October 5, 2012 by Bangkokpyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredhappy Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) #mia: with the term "tame"mix, I was referring to "relatively"slow burning flashes in the open like nitrate based ones .Tame as in: not selfconfining in low quantities when lit in a pile, like 7/3. Edited October 5, 2012 by fredhappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mia Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think it would be helpful if this so called 'Blue Aluminium' had a spec as in mesh size breakdown, particle shape etc and a manufacturers name associated with it as do other commercialAluminium products purchased for pyrotechnic use from reliable suppliers. Armed with such information this, as of now, unproven and unspecified type of Aluminium can be identified as being what it is being claimed to be sold as. As for the safety claims being thrown about until I see some comprehensive and empirical testing of the product by someone competent I would take the claims made for it with a pinch of saltand just use it as you would German Dark/Indian Black observing the same care when mixing, storing etc. Better the devil you know than the one you don't in my opinion.Now that is interesting your quote better the devil you know try blue banish the devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimus Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The invitation was to Colin not the whole community Sorry for any confusion - I was trying to clarify your links with OB as writing "contact us" implies that you are connected with the business. I would be interested to hear some of this 'incredible feedback' about this Al, but preferably from someone not affiliated with OB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mia Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Ok my link to Oliver brown is a researcher for chemicals and in a way business advisor hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingly Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) I think it would be helpful if this so called 'Blue Aluminium' had a spec as in mesh size breakdown, particle shape etc and a manufacturers name associated with it as do other commercialAluminium products purchased for pyrotechnic use from reliable suppliers. Armed with such information this, as of now, unproven and unspecified type of Aluminium can be identified as being what it is being claimed to be sold as. As for the safety claims being thrown about until I see some comprehensive and empirical testing of the product by someone competent I would take the claims made for it with a pinch of saltand just use it as you would German Dark/Indian Black observing the same care when mixing, storing etc. Better the devil you know than the one you don't in my opinion. Hello folks. Im not much of a forum person, but i spend more time here reading then what is probably healthy If you guys want, i could upload the lab analysis of the "EU" Blue Al.. Got mesh sizes, shape etc, but its a picture and i have no idea on how to upload it. So if you want it, abit of help is needed edit/typos Edited October 5, 2012 by Tingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkokpyro Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hello folks. Im not much of a forum person, but i spend more time here reading then what is probably healthy If you guys want, i could upload the lab analysis of the "EU" Blue Al.. Got mesh sizes, shape etc, but its a picture and i have no idea on how to upload it. So if you want it, abit of help is needed edit/typo Tingly, well that is a coincidence is it not? First post and you just joined the forum yesterday. Not associated with Oliver Brown or Mia in any way are you ? Yes I for one would like to see your spec 'picture'Maybe you can copy and past it or upload the file to pyrobin. Mia your comment "Now that is interesting your quote better the devil you know try blue banish the devil" Banish the devil ! What are you suggesting? that this new Aluminium makes making flash safe? Can you show me just a single scientificaly conducted test carried out by someone with suitable qualifications showing that this mystery 'Hype Aluminium' is safer than any other for the purposes of making flash powder?You said and I quote "Ok my link to Oliver brown is a researcher for chemicals and in a way business advisor hope this helps" Well that clears that up; you work for them Surely you or Oliver Brown have a specification for the Aluminium you are selling that you can post here? You are their chemical researcher are you not? You said you are getting incredible feedback...from who? I don't see any one here on this site or anywhere else backing up your claim. I am 100% in favor of any product or manufacturing technique that makes firework manufacture safer but lets back it up with solid evidence, specs and testing by professionalsnot based on your hearsay and conjecture for a product you do not even have a spec or manufactures name for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingly Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Tingly, well that is a coincidence is it not? First post and you just joined the forum yesterday. Not associated with Oliver Brown or Mia in any way are you ? Yes I for one would like to see your spec 'picture'Maybe you can copy and past it or upload the file to pyrobin. Like i sayd, im not a forum person. Im just a happy pyro from the EU trying to be usefull to the rest of you guys.. This Al is NOT from Oliver, this is the EU supplier. http://www.pyrobin.com/files/Bluealu_2.JPG Edited October 6, 2012 by Tingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkokpyro Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Thanks for posting that. As it's in Spanish I presume this is the Nitroparis product is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingly Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Thanks for posting that. As it's in Spanish I presume this is the Nitroparis product is that correct? I have no idea actually. I got this from the EU supplier when it came to Europe.. Edited October 6, 2012 by Tingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It`s interesting that the supplier doesnt recommend blue aluminium for small salutes. Though smaller salutes using ten grams and even less of flash powder can be made to function, the supplier recommends BA for use in salutes containing 15 grams or more of flash powder. The ignition method is important, for simple crossmatching you may need to blend the blue with dark (80/20) to reduce the risk of a dud. Blends of 80% BA and fine flake aluminum make ignition easier while retaining most of the ignition source risk reduction seen with 100% BA uses. The data on formulations using sulfur are also provided. The formulation of 7 parts potassium perchlorate, 1 part sulfur, and 3 parts of a blend using 80% BA and 20% German or Indian Dark flake aluminum may be ignited by simple cross matching of time fuse and still has reduced thermal, friction, and ESD sensitivity compared to formulations using only fine flake aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingly Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) . Edited October 7, 2012 by Tingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) You mean don't add 10% sulfur or trisulfide to your flash mixes? It is kind of fishy you just appeared when the topic was brought up. Then you have the specs no one knows about? Made a new account to look anonymous? Maybe you are the one that's distributing it all over the place? Maybe you couldn't sell it in the US so you took it to EU and tried to pedal it there? Shiffffffffffty eyes up in this b*tch Like I said before, the stuff needs "extra initiation", like a wad of BM shoved into it. Even the good Dr. found that out, and it still didn't compare to the usual "blend" he uses. Edited October 7, 2012 by psyco_1322 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingly Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) You mean don't add 10% sulfur or trisulfide to your flash mixes? It is kind of fishy you just appeared when the topic was brought up. Then you have the specs no one knows about? Made a new account to look anonymous? Maybe you are the one that's distributing it all over the place? Maybe you couldn't sell it in the US so you took it to EU and tried to pedal it there? Shiffffffffffty eyes up in this b*tch Like I said before, the stuff needs "extra initiation", like a wad of BM shoved into it. Even the good Dr. found that out, and it still didn't compare to the usual "blend" he uses. Yes, never do that.. Specs no one knows about? Have you ever tryd to call your supplier to get data on "everything" you order? Its that simple.. The only reason i "jumpd" in the discussion is because i dont want people to get hurt from this, since its NOT like a "regular" F.. This is more like a wolf in sheepcloths that will only "burn" unconfined.. But is MORE energetic then regular F.. But i guess next time instead of giving some good advise i should tell the "ke33wls" how to blow em self up..... /edit typos/edit2, Infact, since "new ones" or "low posts" are not welcome here, i removed some info i got on this... Find out for yourselfs.. Edited October 7, 2012 by Tingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Considering that all of your posts on BOTH of your accounts here are about this product, it does raise some questions. That is mostly what people were getting at. Additionally up until now with that data sheet, people have mostly only seen unfounded hype about this product. I'm doubtful of it's increased safety and some of the other grand claims, but I'm still going to reserve final judgement until I get a chance to experiment myself or see some well respected people get a chance to test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingly Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Both of my accounts? Okey? I only have one (this) account here.. If a 2px camera is sufficient, i could do a few tests and upload.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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