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Chinese connection fuse composition


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#1 spitfire

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:12 PM

I have been searching and testing for over 3 years for a composition that the Chinese use in their yellow or green visco in cake items. I tested dozens of compositions, which sometimes gave very suprising visco, but not what i was looking for. I burned and wasted several pounds of expensive chemicals over time but most of 'em where useless. The ''flow'' was sometimes a real pain, using NC laquer sometimes ruined the composition, or a lot of dross was left behind when the fuse burned. Here is what works great for me now:

KClO4 70
Potassium Benzoate 26
Airfloat willow C 2
Sulfur 2

It is actually a modified whistle. Be aware of the dangers when working with those compositions. Do NOT use chlorate instead!

Why was i searching so long for this composition and the typical properties it has as a fuse? Nothing fancy, i just love the aggressive hissing noise when it burns, the large hot flame and the smell... Posted Image My wife repeatedly watched me in confusion why i was working on fuse AGAIN ''while you have miles of good fuse in stock?!'' The misses just doesn't get it.... Posted Image
Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#2 graumann

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:03 AM

So what was the burn rate of this comp and the advantages over just straight up BP or one of the other Perc lift/charge powders?

#3 spitfire

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:39 AM

The burn rate lies between 1,5 to 2 cm/sec, and the advantages are mentioned above.. I was looking for a fuse to connect the tubes of cake items, this asks for a faster fuse in some cases. This composition worked for me for what i was looking for: a combination of specific properties.

EDIT: combined with some fine Ti it gives wonderful flying fish fuse too. When a piece of 1 to 2 inch is ignited and thrown, it flies in all directions aggressively.

Edited by spitfire, 06 June 2012 - 10:42 AM.

Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#4 AdmiralDonSnider

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:00 PM

Nice! And are you using this in a visco machine?

#5 spitfire

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:33 AM

Yes, i only use it as visco, made on my own machine.
Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#6 graumann

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:54 PM

I am looking to some inspiration (or to blatantly copy a machine, all of the designs I've found don't mention the spin ratios of the two discs and puller hub), is there any chance of getting pictures or measurements of your machine spitfire?

#7 spitfire

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:54 AM

graumann, i could give you all sizes and dimensions, but my machine wasn't built from any blueprint. I just made it out of scrap laying around. All pulleys, disks, collection spool.. all of it was chosen for what was easiest to work with. This is my 3rd machine, so i got a bit of a feeling for the speeds needed. In the end it doesn't matter all that much. You can easily change the pulling action or pulleys if it doesn't work properly. But of course i would be more than willing to help you in any way, so fire your questions at will!
EDIT: i will upload some pictures for you, but be warned... the whole thing looks like shit. But it works! The basic idea works, and the fuse coming of it works well enough for me.

Edited by spitfire, 11 June 2012 - 10:56 AM.

Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#8 spitfire

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:36 AM

On a second thought, i think i will write an article about making visco with a homemade machine. There is a lot of detailed info that makes work much easier, or what i haven't seen in other people's descriptions. I have seen a lot of details in a fuse factory in China, as anybody might know, the Chinese have very simple low tech solutions for what we consider difficulties that can only be solved with expensive tooling. For example, a vibrating motor on the funnel is not necessary, a built-in NC coating is not necessary... even the time fuse machine was a very simple machine. On the other hand other fuse makers could share their info too. But i think we should go to the right topic for that...?
Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#9 graumann

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:06 PM

I have had a search around and there are some people out there who have made very good machines but I think you are the first person I've managed to catch "live". I was think so far as the nc coating was concerned I would just string out the visco and paint it in pingpong lacquer & camphor by hand, as for the rest a low tech hand cranked machine that would be capable to producing even just tens of metres would suffice. Simply because all I have tools for is basic wood working I have got together mostly plywood boards & dowel to make as much of the machine as possible. The design I was working towards was a vertical type.

Edited by graumann, 11 June 2012 - 05:07 PM.


#10 spitfire

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

The way i coat my visco is by winding it around 2 rods drilled inside a working table and under constant tension, wind the uncoated visco around it from one rod to the other and back. Then i just ''paint'' it with 3 or 4 layers of NC. It's dry in a few minutes, and the fuse it cut loose from the rods. I placed the rods about 2 meters apart, the avarage size of a normal dinner table. This method is extremely cheap, easy and fast. Not worth going trough all the trouble of making any semi automatic device to coat the fuse.

I will try to get some pics here: (fingers crossed)


Attached File  IMG_4119downsized.jpg   199.37KB   200 downloads
The machine itself. Very basic, low tech, but it works great.

Attached File  IMG_4124downsized.jpg   216.27KB   219 downloads
Some of the uncoated fuse on the collection spool.

Attached File  IMG_4125downsized.jpg   401.01KB   149 downloads
Some examples of various fuses i made with this machine. No need to buy fuse anymore!


Good lord, it worked...
graumann, basic wood working tools are some of the tooling that comes most in hand the way i built it. You'll need to determine the exact center of several parts and if needed, sand them down by placing the whole in a drill, (by placing a bolt and nut in the center and use the bolt to place it in the drill) and hold it against a belt sanding machine while running both. That is the easiest way for getting disks and rods to the right size and almost perfectly centered. A tool to drill holes exactly 90 degrees is also very handy when making firework tooling. A hand cranked machine is also possible, my first version was hand operated too. Too bad cops confiscated it years ago. It worked, although i needed more than 2 hands to operate it well. Back in those days i didn't have a clue about NC coating so it never produced any usable fuse. The 3rd version you see in the picture can even operate when i'm not around. I just charge the machine, start it and walk away. I just need to make sure i'm back to turn it off when there is no more powder left in the container. Posted Image

Edited by spitfire, 12 June 2012 - 11:51 AM.

Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#11 PyroAce

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:25 AM

Visco fuse making in a Chinese fireworks factory, the video also features firecracker fuse and quickmatch, the visco fuse is towards the end of the video and you need to watch part 4 of the video where it continues:


Part 4:



#12 PyroAce

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:05 AM

This one is good and it includes plans for the visco fuse machine he made:


#13 graumann

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:08 AM

Plans for that machine not yet available, but he hopes to get them up soon.

Spitfire, I would like to thank you for your help in giving the ratio's you used, I've built my version of the machine but haven't really tested it and got it all fine tuned yet, I should be able to scan my drawings and offer them for others when I know it works well. Would it be possible to find out the method/lacquer you used to coat the fuse?

#14 spitfire

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:35 AM

The way i coat my visco is partly from how i saw the Chinese do it in some occasions. The uncoated fuse that runs on the collection spool is under tension. It is very important to keep it under tension at all times when not coated. I take the collection spool from the machine, and tie the end (beginning?) to a standing steel rod. This is simply done by drilling a hole in a workbench and stick the rod in. This is done at both ends of course, you''ll need two rods about 2 feet high and about 10 feet apart from each other. When the fuse machine used all the composition i let it run for a few feet or so to have some empty fuse for a knot. Then i turn the uncoated fuse around both rods and end up with 10 or 20 strands of roughly 10 feet under tension between the rods. This is coated with a simple el cheapo 2'' block brush and very thick NC lacquer. Just brush it from the front and the back. Don't be afraid of damaging anything, use a lot of thick syrupy lacquer and coat at least 3 times on both sides. I use some coloring agent in the NC too, so i can recognize the fuse later for it's properties. After 10 or 15 minutes the fuse is dry enough to cut it off the rods with a sharp knife, and you''ll end up with a bundle of fuse ready to cut and use.
Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.

#15 PyroAce

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:51 AM

Plans for that machine not yet available, but he hopes to get them up soon.

Spitfire, I would like to thank you for your help in giving the ratio's you used, I've built my version of the machine but haven't really tested it and got it all fine tuned yet, I should be able to scan my drawings and offer them for others when I know it works well. Would it be possible to find out the method/lacquer you used to coat the fuse?



The plans are up, see this site: http://students.olin...se_machine.html

If someone had access to a CNC mill and a lathe I don't see why they don't make a few fuse machines and sell them in kit form, I'd buy one.

Edited by PyroAce, 03 August 2012 - 06:51 AM.


#16 MikeB

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:12 PM

The way i coat my visco is by winding it around 2 rods drilled inside a working table and under constant tension, wind the uncoated visco around it from one rod to the other and back. Then i just ''paint'' it with 3 or 4 layers of NC. It's dry in a few minutes, and the fuse it cut loose from the rods. I placed the rods about 2 meters apart, the avarage size of a normal dinner table. This method is extremely cheap, easy and fast. Not worth going trough all the trouble of making any semi automatic device to coat the fuse.

I will try to get some pics here: (fingers crossed)


Attached File  IMG_4119downsized.jpg   199.37KB   200 downloads
The machine itself. Very basic, low tech, but it works great.

Attached File  IMG_4124downsized.jpg   216.27KB   219 downloads
Some of the uncoated fuse on the collection spool.

Attached File  IMG_4125downsized.jpg   401.01KB   149 downloads
Some examples of various fuses i made with this machine. No need to buy fuse anymore!


Good lord, it worked...
graumann, basic wood working tools are some of the tooling that comes most in hand the way i built it. You'll need to determine the exact center of several parts and if needed, sand them down by placing the whole in a drill, (by placing a bolt and nut in the center and use the bolt to place it in the drill) and hold it against a belt sanding machine while running both. That is the easiest way for getting disks and rods to the right size and almost perfectly centered. A tool to drill holes exactly 90 degrees is also very handy when making firework tooling. A hand cranked machine is also possible, my first version was hand operated too. Too bad cops confiscated it years ago. It worked, although i needed more than 2 hands to operate it well. Back in those days i didn't have a clue about NC coating so it never produced any usable fuse. The 3rd version you see in the picture can even operate when i'm not around. I just charge the machine, start it and walk away. I just need to make sure i'm back to turn it off when there is no more powder left in the container. Posted Image



I have to admit that is a work of art. It may not be beautiful, but IT IS. Thank you for sharing with us.
Heartland Pyrotechnic Arts
http://www.heartland.../</span></span>

#17 pyrogeorge

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 04:20 AM

Nice machine spitfire!
Can you share the speed of the circles?
thanks

#18 dave321

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:40 PM

not being an engineer, can someone explain the bit where the central powder core is somehow covered with the thread,
i guess its the top part of the machine

i just cant get my head round it, does it need a special die for all the threads ?

i guess its covered again with more thread on the second platform.

close up video might help me visualise whats going on

some of you clever people should offer a kit !!

dave
dave

#19 PyroAce

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:30 AM

some of you clever people should offer a kit !!

dave



Thats what I keep saying, in kit form it would be a smaller size to send, there is definetely a market out there for these machines.

#20 spitfire

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:21 PM

Not a bad idea, maybe i need to talk to some friends and family who have the knowledge and tools for making this concept an easy to build kit or complete machines.... Posted Image
Churchill, you're drunk.... Yes, Mary, and you are ugly. But i'm sober tomorrow.




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