Phenolic resin C48>H42>O7

[oldguy]

Not sure how your powder comes to be white, oldguy. Mine is orange, and bears a disturbing resemblance to ground-op potassium dichromate.

 

It is just the lighting & shadows when the pic was taken.

Plus, blender was used for charcoal prior.

There were traces of charcoal in it, when I dumped in the resin.

First batch was a very light gray, from the charcoal.

Second batch had a slight hint of orange.

Both batches mixed togather in the bowl ended up a very very very light gray.

But, on close inspection, the bigger powder showed distinct orange color.

[Peret]

I should round off my comments about ball milling phenolic. When I came to wash up my jars and media I found them well coated with sticky powder, and in some cases with like a hard coating like melted sugar. The powder washed away with some reluctance but hot tap water (about 120F) gave the resin coating a consistency like thick sticky toffee. Cold tap water (not that cold around here) turned it brittle. This, the low softening point, is probably the reason for my difficulties, my workshop being nearly always over 100 degrees this time of year and hotter in the late afternoon. I cleaned up in the end by running my mills with water and ice, which cleaned up the media in fifteen minutes.

 

My dog got pretty excited by the smell of phenol, and when my back was turned he hauled all the paper towels I used out of the trash for a good sniffing.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I have tested the stuff, but I'm not sure what would make it better than red gum or shellac. It should be a much stronger binder, but to prevent water from being "trapped" inside a star, you need water-free alcohol. Organic stars bound with it are harder to ignite than any other stars that I have tested.

 

The colour when milled is pink-orange. The smell gives me a headache.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Why it's better? because you can roll magnesium stars and such with it. Yes you'll need to find pure ethanol, or at least some kind of without water in it.

It rolls very nice and dries quickly.

Phenolic resin is not a replacement for dextrin in every dex bound star, because there's totally nothing wrong with dextrin.

Just use phenolic resin when you can't use water for binding.

[Mumbles]

I don't know what the situation is like in Europe, but getting and using pure isopropanol seems to be an easier route than ethanol here. With the new stock of phenolic in the US people have been having trouble with certain brands of denatured alcohol. It seems certain blends available don't work nearly as well as others, possibly due to high methanol contents. Getting pure 190 or 200 proof ethanol is quite difficult without a company license.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Oh, the mall here has 99.5% isopropanol. Could be worth trying.

[Mumbles]

I like the smell of isopropanol better anyway. It also seems to give a little better working times. I haven't gotten a chance to work with the phenolic much yet, but I'm thinking about my previous use of shellac and red gum. Ethanol always seemed to want to crust over where as isopropanol gave something I'd more appropriately call a skin. This probably isn't as much of a problem when rolling stars, but I like cutting.

 

Freakydutchmen, since you probably have the most experience with phenolic resins here, have you tried strobes bound with it? It seems to be the ideal solution for the AP/Mg type of compositions, perhaps even negating the need for dichromate coating. The people on passfire seem more interested in quick drying compositions, and less in utilizing it's non-aqueous properties.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I haven't found a supplier for spherical magnesium here in the EU yet, but it's definitely something I'd like to try. I'll maybe try some AP strobe with sulfate and the right size magnalium.

And you're right, I don't care about drying times, drying 1, 2 or 3 days, doesn't make the difference, so I'm only using the resin with magnesium stars and the layers that goes over those magnesium cores. If the layer between the magnesium star core and streamer composition is about 3mm or more I go over into rolling with dextrin bound compositions. I've rolled crackling with the resin as well with pretty good results.

IMO phenolic resin will never be a replacer for dextrin. It's just a binder thats interesting when reactions can occur with water.

Rolling strontium nitrate compositions with it would be pretty interesting too.

 

By the way, I've bought bio ethanol, the stuff should be 100% ethanol. Seems like it does the job just fine. The stuff is about 30 bucks for 10 liters.

Edited September 25, 2011 by FREAKYDUTCHMEN

[Mumbles]

I'll look into the bioethanol. Ideally I could just buy chemically produced ethanol. It's cheaper, cleaner, and purer, yet they only sell it untaxed industrially. It's illegal to sell for human consumption, so the chemically produced 100% ethanol stuff is pretty tightly regulated. I did find some stuff that seems to have pretty compatible denaturants however that may be useful. It about 90% Ethanol,

[Potassiumchlorate]

So, it cost about $30, so I hope it works. It's a German product, though, so I trust its quality.

[50AE]

Alright, I found a manufacturer of phenolic resin, the problem is the guy sells it with 10% hexamine additive in it. I really want to use the phenolic in chlorate comps, so could I wash the hexamine with water from the phenolic?

He also sells pure phenolic flakes, but he doesn't give 25kg bags, the minimum quantity is 500kg for now. He told me he could make smaller quantities possible for later.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Like I said I already have some. Will test a barium chlorate/phenolic resin star later today. The ratio happens to be the same as with shellac; 88:12.

 

The question is: does it contain hexamine? In that case it is too dangerous. In a loose pile it burns fiercefully, so it would be very good if it didn't contain any hexamine.

 

What do you say, FREAKYDUTCHMEN?

[50AE]

No one know if it's enough to wash it to get rid of the hexamine?

[aeon]

50AE: The hexamine will not be in free form. When added to the reaction mixture of formaldehyde and phenol, hexamine forms amino links between the phenol units instead of ether or methylene. This provides different physical properties, but probably won't influence too much else. You could test the basicity of a slurry of it in water if you were concerned.

[Potassiumchlorate]

The thing is that it's an excellent fuel for organic chlorate stars, but hexamine+barium/potassium chlorate=ammonium chlorate, since hexamine is derived from formaldehyde and ammonia.

[50AE]

aeon, I've been told that hexamine acts as a catalyzer, but before the activation process it should be in free form.

[aeon]

Correct, although not really a true catalyst, as it is consumed in the reaction, not left behind. Its more a curing agent. A crosslinker. So long as there is enough phenol for a complete reaction with it, there should not be any appreciable amount left. As I say though, you can check from the pH.

[Mumbles]

Well, catalysts are actually consumed in the reaction, but regenerated at the end. I don't know if I'd call hexamine a catalyst though. You may have a hard time determining whats around via pH. I don't know about the stuff european sellers supply, but the stuff going around the US has plenty of excess phenol in it.

[kleberrios]

Propellants, Explosives, Pyrotechnics

 

International Peer-reviewed Journal on energetic materials.

 

International Pyrotechnics Society.

 

Volume 9, Issue 3, pages 127 - 132 June 1994

 

The Influence of the Various Types of Binder on the burning characteristics of the magnesium-, boron-, and aluminum-based igniters

 

Abstract

The behavior of six different types of binders phenol-formaldehyde resin, shellac, polyvinylchloride, ethylcellulose, nitrocellulose, and fluorel was investigated in pyrotechnic compositions on the basis of magnesium, boron and aluminum. It has been found that the nature of the binder significantly influences the burning characteristics of the igniters. Correlation has been found between binder exothermicity and investigated characteristics. In addition, the influence of the contents of phenol-formaldehyde resin and of fluorel, in the range of 0% to 25% on the same performance characteristics was studied. Phenol-formaldehyde resin has been chosen as preferred binder for the investigated igniters in an amount of 5%.

 

See also:

http://www.revistade...df%202%2011.pdf

 

 

Hi Oldgui. Here in Brazil the phenolic resin enters in all formulas. I myself have done it with dozens of formulas. It is excellent with KClO4, or PA. Burning up with KNO3. Dissolving it in alcohol. All formulas of color enter the phenolic resin.

Edited November 30, 2011 by kleberrios

[gregkdc1]

Could you replace the phenol resin with resorcinol?

[Mumbles]

Are you talking about resourcinol resin, or the actual chemical resorcinol?

[gregkdc1]

I guess I was talking about the resin. Isn't it basically resorcinol with a catalyst and a formaldehyde precursor like paraformaldehyde? It seems to be fairly easy to find and is very similar in structure to phenol.

 

 

[Peret]

It's been called resorcinol, but it isn't. Probably confusion with its trade name "Resinox". I doubt if resorcinol is one of the precursors, since benzene and phenol are so much cheaper.

 

Benzene is a perfect ring of 6 C and 6 H. Phenol is a benzene ring with one hydrogen replaced by an OH group, while resorcinol is a benzene ring with two hydrogen replaced by OH groups. So they're all closely related. However, phenolic resin is a polymer - whatever it started as, it's been reacted, so it's none of the above any more. Furthermore, phenolic resin is insoluble in water, unlike phenol or resorcinol.

[kleberrios]

Pot Perch 73, Phenolic resin 27 makes a strong propellant........

 

Hi great Oldgui

 

Leveraging its formula

 

If you mix iron powder, or Ti powder give a beautiful gerb with golden sparks (fe), or white sparks (Ti) And the iron powder will not rust.

If you replace KClO4 by AP the gold sparks are more fantastic!! but the Fe powder will rust about 7 days and the gerb don't more catch fire

I've tried to isolate the iron particles with dozens of products but could not prevent rust. Linseed oil, silica, potassium dichromate, phenolic resin, polyester resin, rosin, oil, nitrocellulose, bee wax, grease, WD, paraffin wax, stearin, etc.. nothing !!!!!!!

as I said before, I do dozens of tests with the products they manufacture (metal powders). And these tests have been many new things.

I have a bit of each product: KClO4, KClO3, PA, NC, copper oxide, strontium carbonate, barium carbonate, barium nitrate, potassium nitrate, barium peroxide, PVC, Coal (all types and mesh) , Strontium nitrate, atomized Aluminum, atomized Magnesium, phenolic Resin, Sodium carbonate, barium sulfate, strontium sulfate, lead oxide, bismuth oxide (expensive) and that manufactured metal powders, that you already know. I get these products in the factories of my clients.

 

 

The particles of iron made with AP and Fenolic Resin explode as small fireworks ​​, small gold colored flowers. The effect is short-lived but apaixonate!

Already KClO4 with iron powder does not corrode, but it is not as fantastic as AP and Fenólic Resin.

Edited December 1, 2011 by kleberrios

[oldguy]

If you replace KClO4 by AP the gold sparks are more fantastic!! but the Fe powder will rust about 7 days and the gerb don't more catch fire

I've tried to isolate the iron particles with dozens of products but could not prevent rust. Linseed oil, silica, potassium dichromate, phenolic resin, polyester resin, rosin, oil, nitrocellulose, bee wax, grease, WD, paraffin wax, stearin, etc.. nothing !!!!!!!

 

Have you tried to coat the Fe powder with a Gilsonite solution, then let it dry to prevent rust? It forms a black very durable hard paint like coating on iron & steel.

A gilsonite type of paint was used years back on cars/trucks as an undercoating to protect exposed iron/steel parts from rusting.

 

Gilsonite is a glossy, black, solid hydrocarbon resin similar in appearance to coal or hard asphalt. It is brittle and lightweight and can be easily crushed into powder. Its unique chemical properties identify it as belonging to its own sub-group of the asphaltite family. Gilsonite occurs naturally in a very pure state, and softens in a range of temperatures according to grade, from 300 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit (150-205 degrees Celsius). It has low specific gravity, high nitrogen content and very lower sulfur content. It is non-carcinogenic and safe to handle in its natural state.

 

http://www.americangilsonite.com/eng/about-us/