warthog Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) warthog... Don't light too much of that stuff on the ground. Inhaling vaporized lead is a great way to get a lot into your body easily.I don't light any of it on the ground. They all go skyward. I don't take chances either, I wear my gloves and a mask when making them. I am dumb enough, don't need any help from lead. I would join in on the experimentation but right now I am not able to access the work site so no pyro for me for a bit. Edited January 18, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If trying lead I would try first just keeping the ratios the same... Mix up a 10-20 gram batch and test. I have a high accuracy scale. It's necessary for making small amounts of comp when tuning. Tell me your results and we will go from there. I wouldn't recommend subcarbonate. The trioxides are where it's at! Just tried my 1st batch w/lead. It burned very quicky, with minimal crackling (No Bang). It went straight to burn(Very bright). One possible problem... The MgAl I used is 100 mesh, I used the formula for the 2.5-5mm eggs. As the formula specifies 100-200 mesh, I think this may be the problem. I have 200-325 mesh MgAl, so I will try the smaller eggs with the base formula, and post my results. If you have any suguestions I'd love to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Second Test using 200 - 325 MgAl (2mm eggs). It gave nearly the same results. On a side note... I burned off the remainder of the first test batch, it burned like the individual eggs except at the very end I got one moderate pop. This leads me to beleave there is hope, but tweeking for the Bismuth formula will be required. I've got enough lead for another few tests, but wont be able to get to it for a few days. by then my Bismuth should be here. I'll post any updates to my lead tests, and would welcome any input. Edited January 19, 2012 by justhininabouti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 where can a person even get Bismuth Trioxide these days? All my sources are out and say they will be for some time now. I have NINE POUNDS of Red Lead though.... well, when it warms up I suppose I will se if I can get crackling. semi-pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 where can a person even get Bismuth Trioxide these days? All my sources are out and say they will be for some time now. I have NINE POUNDS of Red Lead though.... well, when it warms up I suppose I will se if I can get crackling. semi-pun intended. USAPyro pointed me at uspigment.com. Note they call it Bismuth Oxide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 dang! They even have Realgar! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killforfood Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Now if I could find some Bismuth Trioxide I could afford, I'd be in business. That's the problem right there. $35 a pound. Ouch!I'll probably just get some red lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I got my bismuth yesterday and ran a test batch using 200-325 MgAl. It gave the exact same results as my 2 batches using Lead (one with 200-325 and one with 100 MgAl), straigh to burn with small crackeling. As a test, I used USAPyro's Small egg formula (Optimized for 200-325 MgAl) using 100 MgAl, and it worked perfectly. My MgAl must be of a different grade then USAPyros. I really like the reaction with the Bismuth, and I think that will make a great ent to a willow star of somethin similar. I'm going to put together a bigger batch, and try to put together some matrix stars. Warthog - If you would like to collaborate on some Lead tests, it would sure be nice to get this effect from the cheaper lead, than having to use the costly bismuth. Let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 justthininabouti, out of curiosity are you actually binding these mixtures into granules or burning them as powders? It isn't entirely clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 justthininabouti, out of curiosity are you actually binding these mixtures into granules or burning them as powders? It isn't entirely clear. Sorry about that. I have been binding them with alcohol as the solvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Justin, I would but right now the weather is all over the place here. One day it is nice and sunny and 60°F outside and the next day it is snowing or worse, freezing rain like it is now. Until Spring I am not really up for doing much at all except reading and now and then some work on my lance colors and burn rates. I am more than game to join in the experimentation when the season changes though. Edited January 26, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Justin, I would but right now the weather is all over the place here. One day it is nice and sunny and 60°F outside and the next day it is snowing or worse, freezing rain like it is now. Until Spring I am not really up for doing much at all except reading and now and then some work on my lance colors and burn rates. I am more than game to join in the experimentation when the season changes though. I sure understand the weather thing. It's been similar here too. I'm working on some comets right now, But I'll get back to to the DE in a few days. Once I get some results, I'll start an new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) If they burn without cracking lower the oxidizer and MgAl amount. If they fail to smoulder go back one step. Lower the MgAl amount and don't change the oxidizer. Sounds like your MgAl is more reactive than mine for some reason... So just lower the amount you use by 1/3rd and test again... Then if it works... Fine tune! If you have a working formula for a certain mesh MgAl post it. Bismuth dragon eggs are easy to fine tune once you get a feel for it. The issue is that different batches of MgAl can have different amounts of Al vs Mg, and mesh sizes may be more to a higher or lower range than labeled... Some may contain more reactive dust, and some may have been milled differently changing the reactivity. Etc... The only way to get perfect consistency is to alloy and grind the Mg and Al yourself. The ratio of CuO to Bismuth Trioxide is unimportant in my experience. My dragon eggs work all the way from 15% bismuth to 50% and probably higher. (Only tested to there.) Best sound is with a decent amount of bismuth though. You can lower and raise the amount of bismuth and change the CuO accordingly and the composition still performs the same within a HUGE range. Just follow these two rules and your good for tuning...1. If it burns use less MgAl.2. If it doesn't stay lit with a torch ignition use more MgAl. If both of those rules fail... Change the amount of KClO4 and test over. I highly doubt those rules will fail you with bismuth and my main formula. When you shift the MgAl ratio up and down change CuO accordingly. The KCLO4 oxidizer assists smoulder. It will prevent the crackling of dragon eggs in amounts over 7g and lead them straight to burn in my experience. Keep it in the 2-6g range. 3% is a good level to keep it at through the testing stage. It will assist smoulder and not cause any issues at that amount. Edited January 30, 2012 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I've been mixing up different DE formulas for a while now. I can't seem to get it right. I'm at work now so I don't remember the comp I used off hand- but I have to really heat'em up before they glow, and maybe pop- when they do pop, it's a beautiful thing, really loud. I've tried rolling them as a star core but only maybe 5% of the eggs will pop as a star.I also packed them in a fountain, but only got maybe 3 or 4 to pop. Tricky little buggers for sure! They are about the size of a mouse turd- maybe I need to make them larger... I'll post the comp later when I get home this afternoon. can't wait to get home- my order of star molecule is arriving today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) the comp I'm using is: bismith subcarbonate 75gmagnalium 200 mesh 15gcopper II oxide 10gn.laquer 10% the eggs are maybe 2-4 mm in size. very hard to light even with a primer. real loud pop when they do light. Edited June 23, 2012 by NAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I've been trying for some time to get my lead tetroxide eggs to work. I'm using the formula: Lead Tetroxide 89%MgAl (30-60 mesh) 11%NC Lacquer 10% will potassium perchlorate help at all? I know the dragon egg prime has potassium perchlorate in it... anyone have any other red lead formula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalFisk Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) the comp I'm using is: bismith subcarbonate 75gmagnalium 200 mesh 15gcopper II oxide 10gn.laquer 10% the eggs are maybe 2-4 mm in size. very hard to light even with a primer. real loud pop when they do light. Try upping the CuO and lowering the bismuth. I had good success on my second batch ever using 37.5 CuO, 37.5 Bi2O3 25 MgAl (200 mesh) +10% NCReports say subcarbonate and trioxide are interchangeable 1:1. I've been trying for some time to get my lead tetroxide eggs to work. I'm using the formula: Lead Tetroxide 89%MgAl (30-60 mesh) 11%NC Lacquer 10% will potassium perchlorate help at all? I know the dragon egg prime has potassium perchlorate in it... anyone have any other red lead formula? I haven't used lead in dragon eggs so I may be mistaken - but shouldn't there be some CuO in your formula? Edited July 11, 2012 by GalFisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplosiveCoek Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes there should be CuO, so that lead formula is never going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You guys must have gotten some bad information along the way. I assure you that an all lead oxide comprised dragon eggs do indeed work. I can't say that I've ever seen an all bismuth oxide egg attempted, but that may just be a cost issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplosiveCoek Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 With only lead and MgAl? I think it depends on how you define 'do indeed work', if it's small popping of the MgAl you want, then your right, if you mean an explosion, then you won't get that from that comp. Only sizzling stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordohigh Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I got this off of pyroguide and have used the bismuth formula with great results. If you go to the site be sure your anti-virus is up to date, AVG is reporting the black hole trojan there. BTW, I have used a variation of magnalium size and have had good results with all Lead-Copper Dragons eggs Lead tetraoxide (Minium) 44 Cupric oxide 31 Magnalium (60-200 mesh) 17 Sulphur 4 Potassium nitrate 4 Lead compounds are poisonous. Make sure to protect yourself! Bismuth trioxide Dragon eggsBismuth trioxide or Bismuth subcarbonate 75 Magnalium (-200 mesh) 15 Copper (II) oxide (black) 10 Aluminium (atomized, -200 mesh) +5 Nitrocellulose lacquer10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zAZO9a Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 i have everything for this and i hate nc ..have to give this some sertous props Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 whatever happened to USApyro? Anybody know if he's alive and well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zAZO9a Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 i just got my trioxide today. all i have is 200-325 mesh mag/al gonna make a test batch tomorrow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zAZO9a Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 i followed the comp for the 200-325 mesh mag/al worked perfectly my first batch.and i only used meal-d for the prime.after drying i just spray them with some denatured alchohol and rolled them in a couple of layers of meal-d. simplicity at its finest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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