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Potassium perchlorate vs Potassium perchlorate with anticake(cab-o-sil)


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#1 gera229

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 05:35 PM

Would Potassium Perchlorate w/anti-cake(Cab O SIL) be worse than one without anticake?
Is it noticeable? Is the performance, power, or loudness different?

How much anti-cake do they add to it when you buy it from an online store?
I know it can be manually added maybe in smaller amounts, but that's not what I would be doing.

Also as for potassium perchlorate domestic (maybe with Cab o sil (anticake)), would there be a difference from this and other types?

I know perchlorate would really matter in colors and whistle mixtures and such, but for explosives will it make a difference?

What is the shelf life of potassium perchlorate?
Would adding sulfur make it louder or any other difference?
Any difference between chlorate and perchlorate in performance and/or loudness?
Thanks.

Edited by gera229, 19 July 2010 - 05:54 PM.


#2 pyrochris732

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:14 PM

yer probably going to get flamed to high hell here because its clear that you just want to mix flash and make big booms. Too many people here are creative with the hobby so not a good question to ask on your third post. lol.

Anyway i havent noticed a difference except the anti cake makes it a dream to diaper mix with, umm, other chemicals.

#3 Ventsi

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:46 PM

Okay, first there is no need to make two seperate threads for a simple question.

Second, a simple search would have answered your question quite easily, here is twenty seconds of searching worth:
http://www.amateurpy...ood-clean-perc/

http://www.amateurpy...hich-is-better/
Read up.

Typically Anti caking agents are not added any more than 1-2% however there are odd cases. There are two common anti-caking agents used: Cab-O-Sil, and TCP{TriCalcium Phosphate}. The second however disrupts fireworks colors, though it is cheaper. All and all it makes it easier to mix with other chemicals.

And here, on this site, we aim for complex fireworks, mixtures of colors and flashes. The composition you are quite obviously asking about is one that is very sensitive, and susceptible to going off when you don't want it to.


Kperc will last quite a while if stored properly, longer than you will perhaps...

All Sulfur does is make things more dangerous, some thing with chlorate only much much worse.
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#4 Pyropow3r

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:47 PM

OK one of the admins really needs to put their foot down on flash powder garbage. There has been nothing but flash powder salutes related threads lately.....

Enough said !

#5 Cookieman

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:48 PM

What exactly are you using it for?Posted Image
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#6 gera229

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:23 PM

What exactly are you using it for?Posted Image


I am not attempting to do this, it's just for my knowledge.

Thanks for the answers everyone. So there would be no difference between all those in sound, and sulfur would make it more sensitive from what you have told me.

#7 Skycastlefish

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:22 PM

Would adding sulfur make it louder or any other difference?
Any difference between chlorate and perchlorate in performance and/or loudness?
Thanks.

Adding sulfur to just about any pyrotechnic mixture will either lower the temperature required for ignition or/and put you in a life threatening situation. While this does increase the burn rate, it also makes it MUCH more dangerous. Adding Sulfur to to Chlorates will very likely get you killed! I'll leave it up to the moderators to give you advice on which comps are best. In the mean time, I'd recommend staying away from Chlorates all together for a good while. If you read the safety section of the forum you'll find that almost every incompatibility with pyro chemicals involves Chlorates. Perchlorates are also dangerous, but less. One thing to keep in mind is that fast is fast and loud is loud. Once you get really loud, then a little louder isn't noticed much, if at all. If it is flash powder that your interested in, theres no reason to go out and make the fastest/loudest/bestest flash on earth. They're all fast and they all detonate which, by definition, is faster than the speed of sound. This is why so many people are telling you to be careful, they don't want you to get hurt. None of these guys are stiffs or goody goody party poopers. They know what they're doing and flash still makes them nervous. If a Crocodile hunter starts sweating when you ask him how to wrangle a 12 footer, you cant blame him. Speaking of risk, now I've got to go spray some wasps on my front porch :/ Wish me luck.

Edit: Sorry dude, i must have been typing this when you made your last post. I guess I'll leave this post up for anyone else who might want to know.

Edited by Skycastlefish, 19 July 2010 - 08:27 PM.


#8 pyrochris732

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:40 PM

dont bother with flash until you've spent considerable amounts of time with other chemicals first. And dont front like you arent making loud boomers, we all know you are. Its more interesting to make other effects anyway, such as colored shells or rockets or whatever. I went through the phase, made the salutes, and realized how incredibly powerful just 3 grams of flash can be. Im not scared of it but I respect the hell out of it to the point where i just dont bother anymore. I made some really big aerial salutes for the 4th. One of them exploded about an inch above the mortar and i could feel a wave of heat and wind come at me, and i was 150 feet away.

I understand the thrill of something that powerful. We'd rather see you make a badass 3 or 4 inch glitter shell or a whistle rocket. Im a newbie and the feeling you get when you see your creation break 600 feet in the air in a perfect sphere of colors, is indescribable. Mind you, a shell will also kill you if you do something really stupid, like mix chlorates and sulfur in the break, but doing it the right way is a lot safer than playing with flash.

#9 Peret

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 10:20 PM

Speaking of risk, now I've got to go spray some wasps on my front porch :/ Wish me luck.

Have luck. Here's a tip from Weingart.

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#10 Skycastlefish

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:24 PM

Have luck. Here's a tip from Weingart.


Thats hilarious! And good to know. It worked out OK. I don't like spraying bugs but they were right in the upper corner/hinge of the front door. Gotta keep the entrances clear.

#11 gera229

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 02:47 PM

I have a silly question:
The more one works with powder the more they breathe it in. Will working with it for too long cause any health problems?

#12 Ventsi

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 02:55 PM

Get yourself one of these with the organic vapor filters and you won't have to worry about dust anymore:

http://www.sears.com...ku=00918043000P

Edited by Ventsi, 20 July 2010 - 02:55 PM.

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#13 gera229

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 03:00 PM

I am not going to be making powder yet, I might just try to make some glitter rockets for a year, but how many don't use that and have been making them ever since?

#14 Ventsi

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 03:13 PM

Keep in mind that different chemicals are more or less toxic. There are some pretty nasty stuff out there, as well as completely harmless pyro chemicals.
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#15 pyrochris732

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 04:06 PM

toxic or not, just keep one thing in mind. Once anything gets into your lungs it is there for the rest of your life. That can cause inflammation and probably breathing problems down the line.

Also keep in mind that most of the powders (ie airfloat charcoal) are so finely powdered that they stay suspended in the air whether you can see them or not. They will get breathed in without a respirator like someone linked you to at the top. Get the respirator if you want to avoid all problems. Dust mask wont cut it, I learned that the hard way.



#16 Cookieman

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 04:31 PM

Get yourself one of these with the organic vapor filters and you won't have to worry about dust anymore:

http://www.sears.com...ku=00918043000P



Thats the same one I have, after making several batches of BP and several batches of KP #46 with Lampblack and Dichromate, I had to change the filters. It was well worth the money I spent.
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#17 gera229

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 04:48 PM

Will a cheap respirator be decent enough?

#18 pyrochris732

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 05:19 PM

no, spend the 40 bucks

#19 Cookieman

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 05:28 PM

Will a cheap respirator be decent enough?



gerra229,


Ask yourself this question before you go out and buy a respirator, " How much are my lungs worth"
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#20 Mumbles

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 06:02 PM

Well, could you at least post a link to said "cheap" respirator that you're thinking of? I only spent probably $25 or $30 on mine, and it works fine. The big thing is that it has a positive seal around your mouth and nose. This means a rubber seal, and a good well-adjusted fit. At work they used to use this aweful smelling shit to test the fit, but I much prefer amyl alcohol at home. Usually I can tell when the filters need to be changed just when working with wet comp. I add a little alcohol to most mixes to break the surface tension, and can smell it when my filters are done.
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