Flash powder safety

[Nessalco]

I like the granulated product very much. Easy to handle, very little dust, and, like Fla said, it burns very slowly in the open. I made 8 kilos of flash this year, in 1 kilo batches. Didn't waste any on "no steeeenking tests..."

 

Kevin

[OblivionFall]

I was told somewhere that when making salutes,

 

after you have inserted one end cap, glued in the fuse and filled the aerial/ground salute with powder, inserting the second end cap plug (the type from cannonfuse/pyrocreations) creates pressure inside the salute that could potentially ignite the flash.

 

Is this true?

[Mumbles]

Anything is possible. Maybe you should get over your fascination with salutes, or go elsewhere. It's getting very tiresome.

[Ubehage]

I was told somewhere that when making salutes,

 

after you have inserted one end cap, glued in the fuse and filled the aerial/ground salute with powder, inserting the second end cap plug (the type from cannonfuse/pyrocreations) creates pressure inside the salute that could potentially ignite the flash.

 

Is this true?

Yes. When you plug something, there is air inside that needs to get out. If you try to push the plug in too fast, the air will get compressed to some extend, before it has a chance to escape. Sudden pressurization = heat.

 

And listen to Mumbles

Edited August 10, 2015 by Ubehage

[MrB]

Taking the concept to the extreme, people make

based on the principle.

Much as it would please me not to see you blow your self up, air pressure probably wont be rising fast enough to cause ignition of the flash, it's much more likely that friction will kill you. Or the hot gluegun, people insist on using to seal salutes.

 

For real tho. This fascination with salutes... Your going to get someone killed. To be entirely frank, i hope it's your self, instead of someone else.

Start with other fireworks.

B!

[JonJ]

Flash powder is serious business.

Always use extreme caution.

 

 

True for all pyrotechnic mixtures but especially with flash powder.

[CaverCork]

This is my second day as a member of this forum, and I must say, I am truly frightened by some of the people on here. I was in the chat room last night, and was truly amazed by the banter. Flash salutes were being discussed as though it was normal and fun, ANFO as a liquid (?!), and HE as though it was a normal topic there. I was surprised these guys still had fingers to type with. I'm not sure this is a place for me as I like my body parts and would like them to remain intact. I mean no disrespect, maybe the guys were testing a new member trying to see if he even knows the properties of ANFO and use of boosters? If that was the case, all they really did was identify themselves to me as people I wouldn't want to be around. Then I find this lengthy thread asking about safe flash? As far as flash, just say no. And if you must say yes, though there are very, very few reasons to say yes, always use KCLO4 and never make more than ONE gram at a time for immediate use. Do not store combined binaries, ever. And if you have to ask what KCLO4 is, perhaps you should take up knitting.

[Mumbles]

I share your concerns. Flash discussion on this forum has become more prevalent than I'd prefer, and is something I'm looking to address. As far as the chat last night, this all happened after I had walked away for a bit. Most of the members who were in there, I'd trust to know what they're doing. Reading back, I will admit it got a little to the extreme. This isn't a very common thing, and from experience I can say that normally it does not happen with new or inexperienced members around.

[CaverCork]

I have come to the conclusion they were testing my knowledge, since one of them is on the HE forum. Most hobbyists do not use ANFO due to it's difficulty to detonate, and being new, cautious, and not knowing them from Adam at the time, I was not willing to discuss how to do it or even what it is. They probably thought I was throwing out gibberish from the Internet to appear "kewl" or fishing for forbidden information. I am 53 and would like to see 93. I also think they were testing to see if I thought flash was a "pretty neat idea". Discussing such things in an open chat for all to see is not responsible, and could probably result in someone's death. There are a few hobbies where one can make no mistakes and still die. One is cave diving and the other is explosives. It is too bad the grading system here is based on the number of posts, and not the content.

[Bobby]

It is too bad the grading system here is based on the number of posts, and not the content.

 

Yes, I have found that frustrating myself. I am not really clear how to convince anyone on this site of my abilities, intentions, or dedication to pyrotechnics. Although I visit quite often, I don't post because I get this feeling my input and questions are taken in a negative light.

[Ubehage]

There are a few hobbies where one can make no mistakes and still die. One is cave diving and the other is explosives. It is too bad the grading system here is based on the number of posts, and not the content.

I think it becomes troublesome, if you have to read everybody's post and grade them based on that: You can have people who know it all, but have a problem finding the right words. They will be graded as noobs, whereas less experienced people might get high grades.

 

On the other hand, we have a few admins who is not afraid of kicking people out of the forum.

So in a sense, you can say that people who have 100's of posts behind them, and still have access to this forum, is bound to have picked up a lot of knowledge on the way.

[OldMarine]

I have come to the conclusion they were testing my knowledge, since one of them is on the HE forum. Most hobbyists do not use ANFO due to it's difficulty to detonate, and being new, cautious, and not knowing them from Adam at the time, I was not willing to discuss how to do it or even what it is. They probably thought I was throwing out gibberish from the Internet to appear "kewl" or fishing for forbidden information. I am 53 and would like to see 93. I also think they were testing to see if I thought flash was a "pretty neat idea". Discussing such things in an open chat for all to see is not responsible, and could probably result in someone's death. There are a few hobbies where one can make no mistakes and still die. One is cave diving and the other is explosives. It is too bad the grading system here is based on the number of posts, and not the content.

 

I turn mountains into mole-holes in my job but have found that other than the safety regs, not much directly translates to fireworks. I don't (try not to) take it too hard when a long time pyrotechnic guy berates me for something. It's like biology and biochemistry: related but different.

Like you I love my digits and wish to keep them!

[dynomike1]

First thing i think flash should be discussed in HE. One reason is the safety factor, the next thing this is an open site, you don't know who is reading this stuff. Could be a kid of the ATF.I have noticed that when a question comes up about flash seems like some of us jump to a conclusion a little quick without knowing the person's background. I have seen some get jumped on over flash that have( HE experience) bad enough to make them leave here and not come back. I have been shooting powder for 40yrs. and flash never chossed my mind till i started making fireworks. I agree that some try to take the shortcut instead of doing the research. The first year i started doing this i sat in a grain truck in line at the grainery for 2 months reading and researching and i am still doing it.I think anyone going to start using flash needs to read this thread. It doesn't leave a whole lot of room for questions. Just my 1.5 cents.

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/2852-flash-safety-bill-ofca-on-flash/?hl=%2Bflash+%2Bsafety

http://web.archive.org/web/20110818025708/http://www.pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Category:Compositions

Edited November 7, 2015 by dynomike1

[MrB]

First thing i think flash should be discussed in HE. One reason is the safety factor, the next thing this is an open site, you don't know who is reading this stuff.

Problem with that being that every pyro sooner or later uses flash, where as i don't really feel a need to join the HE section at this time. I'm done playing with HE, and i'm quite happy to not go there anymore.

Flash, simply put, is a legitimate part of pyro. Be it as salutes, break-charge, or as booster for a break-charge.

 

Hell, the reason people have a "problem" with flash, has nothing to do with flash in it self. Whistle is easily as powerful, and equally sensitive. It's the fact that k3wl-boomers show up wanting to make large salutes that make people stray away from it.

Somewhat odd, and possibly counterproductive. Odd, since a lot of us, (i'm not saying everyone, but it's darn close.) initially was attracted by things that went boom. My main experience with HE comes from this. It was easier for me to get my hands on the information & stuff to make a primary explosive, then flash, and knowing how sensitive most primary explosives are, in hindsight, i wish it was the opposite. Reality knocks on my door to let me know that i was going to make boom's either way, so having had an alternative to primary explosives, would have been safer, and, most likely, less painful.

 

I'm not saying the k3wl-boomers should be spoon-feed flash info, but it's a lot safer then some of the alternatives, and excluding them from reading it might lighten our conscious, but in reality, were not helping the situation in the least. It also means "we all" have to get access to the HE section of the forum at some point.

And, i'm actually for providing info to anyone, since everyone has to make their own choices, and flash is a lot safer then some alternatives. Hence why i tend to try and encourage safe practices, but do share information where i can. Even if i might not agree with how they intend to entertain them self with it. There have been rare cases where i said "nope, not happening" and walked away... but they are quite rare.

B!

[CaverCork]

Okay. First, I agree that evaluating on a post by post basis is unrealistic, and the moderators do a bang up job here. Second, the knowledge of the other chat participants was only in question because I did not know who they were, and their motivation was a mystery at the time. I tend to shy from the chat section now due to this encounter Third, given MrB's take on the situation, flash is definitely safer than other things that are just as easy, if not easier, to make. Mother of Satan comes to mind for example. I do make flash on occasion, it has it's place in small quantities, but even terrorists shy from the other. But the k3wl kids (and adults who have not been eliminated by natural selection yet) would find it exciting, so now I'm torn between two evils. Given the information readily available on the net, maybe it would behoove the "more responsible" among us to try and safely guide the less experienced. But where does that put us legally if they screw it up anyway?

[MrB]

But where does that put us legally if they screw it up anyway?

 

Don't know. Being realistic, nobody would bother to actually track you down and try to hold you accountable for what someone else did, when it comes to pyro.

But then realistic, ain't really the first thing that comes to mind when you talk local prosecutors, or cops. Not sure about none-local ones, but i doubt they are any different.

 

Hence i've sadly walked away from a few threads, where the "pyro" have been more of a mad bomber, then a starting out pyro with an affinity for salutes.

B!

[angulini]

hello i know this topic is old but i need to ask i have magnalum and potasium nitrate and i want to make flash powder

 

the comp is like this Potassium nitrate 55grams

magnalum 45 grams

and sulfur 5 grams

 

is this comp safe or isnt i maybe take of the sulfur and make 7 parts nitrate and 3 parts magnalum

 

pls if some one see this replay at my email or the forum prefer mail seenfria@hotmail.com

[dagabu]

hello i know this topic is old but i need to ask i have magnalum and potasium nitrate and i want to make flash powder

 

the comp is like this Potassium nitrate 55grams

magnalum 45 grams

and sulfur 5 grams

 

is this comp safe or isnt i maybe take of the sulfur and make 7 parts nitrate and 3 parts magnalum

 

pls if some one see this replay at my email or the forum prefer mail seenfria@hotmail.com

 

It's hard to reply to this post in a way that doesn't offend somebody but I will try...

 

angulini, flash is among the most potentially dangerous of the pyrotechnical compositions that can be made. I for one, will not answer anybody that asks about flash, especially when it's their first post and I have no idea of your background or experience.

 

Do you remember The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? Lucy asks Mrs Beaver, "Is Aslan safe". She replied, "NO! Of course not, he is a Lion! But, he IS good!"

 

No, flash is not safe but it can be used safely. Our mission here is to discuss pyrotechnics in a safe manner, I don't get that from you at this point. Perhaps introduce yourself first?

[DavidF]

Hey Dag, I understand and share your concerns. I have a suggestion. Feel free to tell me I'm nuts if you don't like it. I think it might be prudent to re-direct some flash questions to the Wikipedia article on it. If the user still has questions after reading the Wiki article, they can be addressed on a point by point basis, placing some responsibility on the Wiki reader, and reducing "ours". The forum has no moral burden about it this way. They really do cover it pretty well, actually. This way the boomers might be educated and curious gawkers weeded out at the same time. Whatcha think guys?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_powder

[dagabu]

LOVE IT! Thanks Dave!

[OldMarine]

I haven't asked questions about flash and haven't needed to because it's all in the threads. I think no newbie wants to search out info but would rather be spoon fed so they can go right out and make booms.

I like the wiki referral idea.

[angulini]

 

It's hard to reply to this post in a way that doesn't offend somebody but I will try...

 

angulini, flash is among the most potentially dangerous of the pyrotechnical compositions that can be made. I for one, will not answer anybody that asks about flash, especially when it's their first post and I have no idea of your background or experience.

 

Do you remember The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? Lucy asks Mrs Beaver, "Is Aslan safe". She replied, "NO! Of course not, he is a Lion! But, he IS good!"

 

No, flash is not safe but it can be used safely. Our mission here is to discuss pyrotechnics in a safe manner, I don't get that from you at this point. Perhaps introduce yourself first?

yea sorry for that i will introduce my self im from spain and i have been around the hobby of pyro for years but in this year i start beging making small fountains and startmains and shellls that question i made before wasent to be a boomer is just a safety question i made to get understund the flash powder i dont need it right now but later maeby yes im sorry if was an inconvenient

inconvenient

[flashmob]

A friend was doing a reenactment when a charge that we know now contained 7 grams of 70/30 flash powder went off on his head. My friend was originally diagnosed with a concussion, but is still having significant health problems. Could someone with knowledge of pyrotechnic materials be able to tell me how dangerous flash powder really is in these types of situations? I apologize for my lack of knowledge on this, I just want to help my friend out so he can better understand what happened to him. I would appreciate any comments or thoughts.

[NeighborJ]

Flashmob, I'm not entirely certain what you are asking here. Your friend has experienced blunt force trauma to his head and as a result he has suffered a concussion. The concussion is basically caused by the brain bouncing around against the walls of the skull, this often produces permanent brain damage. How severe the symptoms present and how long they will continue is anyone's guess. It is very common that the symptoms are permanent and will cause a number of other disorders such as dementia, short and long term memory loss.

The flash explosion is not a detonation but is referred to as a deflageration reaction. This means that it burns fast enough that the flame envelope exceeds the speed of sound and the report we hear is the result of that supersonic bubble of burning gasses. I'm sure others can explain the reaction better.

 

This past forth of July, one of my students had a mishap with an illegal M80. You know... The ones with the super fast wicks. The result was the partial degloving of his hand, his dominant hand. He has yet to return to school and may never be able to regain enough use of that hand to use it for work.

Flash is no joke and it is a no brainer to ask yourself if it is truly needed in the device you are constructing. I use it sparingly, only it salutes. I've never needed it to boost my burst charge. As long as enough confeinment is used it is unnecessary.

[FlaMtnBkr]

How did it go off on his head? What was it contained in? Was it an accidental ignition or?

 

Does he want to know how it could have happened? Or possible health repercussions? Or how dangerous it is? Or?

 

Would really need a little more info and better idea of what you're looking to have answered. Potential health issues are best left to his doctors. If he isn't happy with them so far he should probably try to find a Dr that helps returning soldiers as I'm sure they would have the best answers.

 

If he didn't suffer any burns or lacerations, then I would guess, and it would be a complete guess, that any symptoms will decrease with time except he may have some permanent hearing damage. As to how it could have happened, there isn't enough info to even begin to take a guess.

 

Give us some more info and hopefully your friend is doing ok and makes a full recovery.