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Automatic Shell Paster (WASP without the "W")


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21 replies to this topic

#1 Bananaphone69

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 09:05 PM

Ok, so I've done a boat load of research into this machine, and bottom line, I want one. But there is a snag in my bottom line, I don't have $1.5k or more to fork out for one. So, I'm going to build one. Any help, ideas, or access to actual product specs would be appreciated. The truly hard part will be the software, but as I am connected to Georgia Tech, it should be easy to get a student to help me. Any help from members is greatly appreciated. My blog will be started to follow my progress.

(I'm also not certain about the legality of acquiring the software from someone who already has the actual machine)

#2 NightHawkInLight

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 09:54 PM

Ok, so I've done a boat load of research into this machine, and bottom line, I want one. But there is a snag in my bottom line, I don't have $1.5k or more to fork out for one. So, I'm going to build one. Any help, ideas, or access to actual product specs would be appreciated. The truly hard part will be the software, but as I am connected to Georgia Tech, it should be easy to get a student to help me. Any help from members is greatly appreciated. My blog will be started to follow my progress.

(I'm also not certain about the legality of acquiring the software from someone who already has the actual machine)


Here's a fairly simple design that requires no programming:

Attached File  WASP_Design.JPG   6.79KB   111 downloads

The discs at the ends spin simultaneously while the roll of gummed tape moves back and forth on a bent rod. Obviously I left out the mechanical features beyond the most basic. There would also be wet sponges that the tape would run through.

The design would leave small uncovered areas at the poles of the shell, but it shouldn't make to much of a difference in performance. The other option would be to rotate the shell 90 degrees every few wraps.

Well? Anyone see a reason this design would not be viable?

#3 Miech

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 06:29 AM

That is almost how shells at the factory of Richard Caballer (Malta) are pasted. He uses a machine with 4 rolls of tape spinning around the shell, with the same result.
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#4 Swede

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:00 AM

If you genuinely want it CNC, computer controlled, be prepared for a long road, and a lot of study, unless you have a professional background. The very specialized nature of a CNC paster requires custom computer code, so you'll need C++ or maybe VB to control the printer port or perhaps USB; from there, the commands go to the stepper motors. You'll need a computer interface, a power supply for the steppers, be able to write your own code, AND create the motion hardware. The CNCZone is very popular and will have all the info you need on basic motion control.

I built a small benchtop CNC mill using some sweet little ballscrews (precision ground) and good servomotors - it took a couple of years. Not a trivial task.

Posted Image Posted Image


But I think a clever guy could do it, and I think the way to go for a homemade rig would be a mechanical setup, not computerized. But if it's something that interests you, by all means, go for it. Just don't underestimate the work and the $$. Often with stuff like this, by the time you're done, you'll have spent enough $$ to buy one off the shelf.

I'd love to see a computerized visco machine (and a QM machine) as well as a WASP.
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#5 Bananaphone69

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 12:49 PM

Well, I think, after the overwhelming consensus, I will go mechanized rather than computerized. I like the basic idea of nighthawkinlight because although it misses the poles, it does leave the time fuse clean and untouched, and the poles can always be done by hand.

#6 PyroPDC

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 02:16 PM

Posted Image Posted Image


I'd love to see a computerized visco machine (and a QM machine) as well as a WASP.


wow that looks sweet :D

I own a wasp (stinger) and i must say they make life so easy.

making your own computerised wasp hardware is not a problem but he sotware must be a pain is the ass with so much trial and error getting the perfect sphere and the correct layers for each shell size, but its possible

#7 Swede

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:55 AM

Think of all the clever gadgets made before computers... weaving looms, babbage's mechanical computer, surveying equipment, timepieces, pretty much any assembly line process before the '70's was purely mechanical. I think it would work well and the effort would be 1/10th of the computerized rig.

It's weird, even with a CNC mill, I still do 95% of my work manually, because it is faster. Unless you are doing a large number of anything, the setup, programming, everything associated with CNC is very time consuming. It's only worth doing if you have to make 100 of something rather than 1 or 2. That said, I've never seen a WASP, and I suspect it's pretty spectacular. If I was a commercial guy, it'd be a "must have" device.
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#8 andyboy

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:21 AM

That said, I've never seen a WASP, and I suspect it's pretty spectacular. If I was a commercial guy, it'd be a "must have" device.


Take a look if you're interested:

http://www.ctpyro.com/5.html
Pasting is supposed to be messy, kinda like sex.

#9 Arthur

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 02:28 PM

I find the idea of copying the WASP unpleasant! I wouldn't like my design to be pirated.

However nothing truly NEW is likely to be invented so either a MORE automated development based on a WASP with lots of coding and lots of computer power, OR something much simpler much cheaper and probably sacrificing some of the symetry and accuracy to get the price even sub 100.

#10 TrueBluePyro

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 12:25 AM

It really wouldnt matter if you 'copied' the WASP, unless you started selling it for a profit, then that would be a problem.

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#11 Mumbles

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:56 PM

Someone made a WASP clone for personal use. Even he got a nasty e-mail or letter from Jim Widmann's lawyer I do believe. Should you be able to make one, and even try to sell it, I can't imagine you'd get very far without getting in some serious legal issues.
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#12 Arthur

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 03:10 PM

I've just been watching a UK TV programme about farming and seen an idea for a paster for cylindrical shells. Though there might be a problem scaling it down from the ton scale to the pound scale.

#13 andyboy

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 03:14 AM

Do you mean the balers they have on the back of the tractors?
Pasting is supposed to be messy, kinda like sex.

#14 Arthur

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 06:29 AM

It was a farm yard machine for wraping large round bales with industrial clingfilm for preservation for winter feed. Change the large round bale for an unwrapped cylinder shell and start wrapping with 10 - 20 mm gummed paper tape.

#15 andyboy

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 06:33 AM

On a side-note, the cling-film comes on HDPE-pipe with a 3" inside diameter. :D
Pasting is supposed to be messy, kinda like sex.

#16 Swede

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:54 AM

I have a buddy who is a patent attorney. I asked him about the "personal use" question, as in "If I copy a patent for personal use, does it violate the patent?" He laughed and said "yes it does, but very, very few violations are pursued. But it is a common misconception that personal use excuses one from any legal action."

With that said, I've copied patented stuff on occasion. I guess I justify it by saying "I'd never buy this thing regardless, so the inventor isn't out any money." But that's a bit of an intellectual cop-out.

The answer is simple, modify the homemade WASP sufficiently, or make one without any reference to the original - come up with something unique. There's always many ways to do a task like this.
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#17 Arthur

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 02:41 PM

Patent law is very expensive to enforce, so if an individual makes one patent infringing copy of a patented item, it's still an infringment but it's not worth the cost of legal representation, and there is no presumption that a guilty defendant will pay costs.

However copying a WASP is still pirating something from one of the small pyro community. Take the challenge of inventing a new machine to do the pasting task better, faster or cheaper.

#18 whitepyro

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 02:30 AM

Cant wait to try make one of these

#19 Peret

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 01:43 PM

Since this zombie thread has revived, let me observe that there's no mention of any patent on the WASP web site, which would be an odd omission if one existed. It's basically just a CNC winding machine, and all the important features will be prior art. Even if there was a patent, it would make certain specific claims, and unless one of them was as broad as "wrap paper around a ball" it wouldn't stop you making your own ASP if you avoided the specific claims. The software supplied with the WASP is automatically covered by copyright, but the principle is simple mathematics and a competent person could write their own.

#20 dagabu

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:56 PM

Since this zombie thread has revived, let me observe that there's no mention of any patent on the WASP web site, which would be an odd omission if one existed. It's basically just a CNC winding machine, and all the important features will be prior art. Even if there was a patent, it would make certain specific claims, and unless one of them was as broad as "wrap paper around a ball" it wouldn't stop you making your own ASP if you avoided the specific claims. The software supplied with the WASP is automatically covered by copyright, but the principle is simple mathematics and a competent person could write their own.


Jim Windman (the inventor) has even helped those that have made their own ASPs with hints and such. The real question is, why would I invest 100 plus hours in research and then another 100 hours plus in assembly of a machine that may or may not work when i can plop $2000 down for a fully functional machine?

I say, go for it!

-dag




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