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Understanding the law


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#1 rbpwrd240

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:30 PM

So me and a buddy got into a discussion the other day and now even after some heavy research we are confused.

 

I was told that owning all items including clay, fuse, FP and casings to make salutes was legal but that you couldn't put more then 50mg of FP into the salute or it violated the children protection act set way back in the 60's that saw the end of the cherry bomb and true M-80.  If you did have the items to make a bigger one this was also fine as long as it wasnt assembled.

 

Now my buddy was able to show me in skylighter's write up about the laws concerning the BATFE orange book that we can manufacturer any fireworks we please as long as they are used in the same day and not transported and fired in accordance with local laws and made on our own property where legal and we can do all of this without a license or permit.

 

Then he showed me where it says we can store the fireworks we make as long as we use a legal storage magazine per the directions in the BATFE orange book.

 

Well heck now I am realy confused, is it okay for me to manufacture a salute with more then 50mg of FP so long as I blow it up on my property in the same day its made and I dont transport it.  Or is it still illegal to have the device assembled if its over 50mg of flash powder as I was originally told.

 

I would imagine Bottle rockets, fountains, smoke grenades and Aerials to also fall under the same regulations as salutes and I dont realy see any limitations mentioned on these other then the aerials which are limited to 2" without a license or again so I was told.

 

So can someone help me understand these laws before I get any further into this hobby.  I have been waiting over a year to start making some small items and so far I have realy concentrated on making BP and black match etc.  I feel I am ready to start moving on to other items such as salutes, and Aerial shells but I dont want to take one more step until I can confidently say I understand the letter of the law and what I am required to do to stay on the correct side of the line.  

 

I appreciate any input and just incase anyone is worried I am engaged to a wonderful woman with a 12 year old step son and I have been using fireworks for over 25 years.  (I am in my 30's) So no worries about me being a youngster just looking to blow up a large salute in a neighbor hood cold-a-sac to set off car alarms and irritate the neighbors.

 

 

Thanks,

Alex R.



#2 lloyd

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 05:29 PM

Alex,

ATF regulations allow an unlicensed individual to make and store (on his manufacturing site) any fireworks, so long as 1) they are not transported over any public roads (even seldom-traveled dirt roads), and 2) never conveyed to any other party except for an ATF license-holder.

 

On your manufacturing site, you must have the same adequate setbacks from dwellings and roads as you would if licensed.  If you store anything past the day its made, you must have a proper magazine, again, with all the setbacks a manufacturer would be required to meet.  All that information is in The Orange Book.

 

BUT, the ATF requires that you also be in compliance with any local laws and ordinances, so before you set-up to do such making, you need to check on what your local authorities think of the endeavor.

 

Lloyd


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#3 rbpwrd240

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:16 PM

Thank you that is basically what my friend was saying so it appears I have some more reading to do about set backs.  I think its 75 feet per inch of shell but how does a salute equate into that.



#4 lloyd

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:19 PM

No, those are firing setbacks before an audience.  Manufacturing setback distances between work buildings and/or magazines, roads, occupied structures, etc. are given in the Orange Book.

 

The firing setback for salutes follows the same setback distances from audiences as do color shells.  That's not an ATF rule, that's derived from 'traditional practices', and now NFPA rules.

 

Lloyd


Edited by lloyd, 16 July 2017 - 06:20 PM.

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#5 rbpwrd240

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:31 PM

Thank you for clearing that up Im off to go do some reading.   :)



#6 Mumbles

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:48 PM

The 50/130mg limits of flash have to do with consumer fireworks.  Anything you prepare yourself is going to be automatically classified as 1.3g, even if it follows the flash powder limits.  Only if you ever had the desire and patience to submit a device you manufacture for testing to comply with 1.4g regulations the limits would come into play.  For our purposes a salute with 1 mg of flash is technically just as regulated as one with 100 g.  

 

Ground salutes and devices which look like m-80's, cherry bombs, etc. have an extra level of scrutiny around them.  If you get caught making them, especially if they think you're selling them, they will likely treat it much more seriously.  They bring the most negative attention to the hobby and are less likely to result in a favorable result.  Salutes have their place in pyrotechnics, but appearances can matter.  


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#7 Merlin

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:49 PM

Of course what Lloyd and Mumbles said is true just don't overlook the part where Lloyd said. " local laws". Some state laws are far more restrictive than federal and ofcourse municipalities can restrict further. A lot depends on what state you live in. Many state laws are written to permit commercial manufacturers with little consideration for hobbiests.

Edited by Merlin, 16 July 2017 - 08:53 PM.


#8 rbpwrd240

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:57 PM

I am looking into my local laws and I have paired my self with a licensed pyrotechnician to help me get my license here in Texas to do shows.

 

I have heard here on this forum and others the horror stories of folks who got pinched by the long arm of the law and I want nothing doing.....

 

Thanks again guys, I appreciate the help.



#9 DaHaYn

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 04:21 PM

I need to start working on getting my atf license also being in Texas also I want to make sure I don't break any laws etc.

#10 lloyd

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:58 AM

Talk to the members of the Fire Ants club.  They'll have information on how to proceed with 'Texas-specific' information.

 

Lloyd


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