Nc laquer for dragon eggs

[FlaMtnBkr]

Now you just need to add +10% Ti in the 30-100ish mesh range.

 

Not only will they be loud but you will have a 20 foot radius of sparks going everywhere to add a visual element.

[MudDuckPyro79]

I'll work the ti. In later still working on the comp and nc laquer. This was my first time at these and still have a bit more learning and reading to do, lloyd held my hand thru this batch so I'll work it in later.. Edited April 10, 2017 by MudDuckPyro79

[MudDuckPyro79]

I suggest trying a few different formulas if you feel like experimenting. Lloyd gets consistent time to pop between granules with that formula but that might not be important to you. I imagine you also need very similar sizes and an even prime to get that consistent timing, though just a guess.

Anyways, I like the 37.5/37.5/25 formula. It works well for me and uses half the amount of bismuth.

does this formula produce as loud as Crack as using lloyds formula??

[lloyd]

Duck,

It might. 'My' formula wasn't my invention. I only perfected the method of compounding it rapidly in commercial production.

 

I made and tried about 12 different formulae (multiple times, and in side-by-side comparisons) in order to select one for our manufacturing operation. My primary goal was not to economize on ingredients, but to achieve 1) a VERY loud crack per granule, and 2) as near-perfect timing from 'crack-to-crack' as possible.

 

A lot of crackle gets sold in the close-prox goods market in the form of small mines, where the 'stars' are only primed crackle bits; no colors or other visual effects. The goal in one of those is to have all the stars explode simultaneously, resulting in a single loud CRASH, rather than an extended sporadic crackling noise.

 

To that end, the formula (a public one) I eventually selected had the best timing, grain-to-grain, of all we tried. My only contribution to the whole thing was in coming up with a way to rapidly make it with most of the 'labor' being by machine, rather than by hand.

 

LLoyd

[MudDuckPyro79]

I got ya lloyd sorry for the confusion on my end, but you should see on Google when you type your name and dragon eggs. Lol from just a few minutes on Google I would have swore they were yours. Well on another note I'll be trying these again Friday to see if I can produce a batch just like this one and if all works out this time ima rolling on with it to a full batch and get some noise going in the air.

[MudDuckPyro79]

I am also gonna try the other mentioned comp on here using less bismuth just to do a side by side and see what I think about it. Thanks for all the help here guys and responses to the thread. Now back to work.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Hey MDP,

 

I experimented with different formulas quite a bit as well, but from a hobbyist point of view. I originally didn't have on hand tons of chemicals and mesh sizes of metals. So I was looking for cheap(er), works well with my chems, and performed well/very loud. For me, the 37.5/37.5/25 bismuth, black copper oxide, MgAl formula worked best without adjustment, and one of, if not THE, loudest that I tried. I also usually add +5 to 10% spherical or flake Ti for a nice visual 'pop' and use 200 mesh MgAl in the formula. I also tested already published formulas from the internet and I think you will find the above formula is quite popular, with it and Lloyd's being 2 of the most popular (with US hobbyists) from what I can tell.

 

Most formulas can work pretty good and will give a nice loud single pop which is what you should be looking for. I think many people think DE or crackle should make a crackle sound from multiple pops from each granule because of the name. And probably because it's easy to get a crackle sound from one grain if too fine MgAl was used. But when a bunch are lit at the same time they make a similar crackle sound, assuming it's not Lloyd's Single Crash Crackle, as the explosions are slightly spread out and I would assume is where the name comes from.

 

The particle size of the chemicals, though mainly the MgAl, will change the way the grains behave and depending on what size you make your granules you may have to tune your eggs by adjusting the mesh size of the MgAl.

 

DE are essentially a modified strobe composition where there is a smolder and a flash phase which is explosive and emits sound in addition to light. As the particle size of MgAl gets bigger, the delay or smolder phase gets longer where a certain size granule will go from almost a fast crackling glitter, to multiple pops, to a single loud pop, and eventually to no pop at all as it smolders red but never gets hot enough to move to the flash phase or pop. They can also behave differently in the air as moving thru the air can cool them enough that they never pop and why a good prime is necessary when individual granules are put in a shell. When used as a star core or added to a (matrix) star or comet you can get away without prime.

 

Too fine a particle size will make a DE have multiple small pops that aren't very loud and usually explodes/spalls the ignited material away which extinguishes the burn and leaves behind a good chunk of the granule unreacted. The finer the MgAl, the quicker and smaller the pops will be. Though the smaller you make your DE granules, the finer the mesh MgAl you can use.

 

Hopefully all this isn't too hard to understand! Some people get lucky and their chems work well together and they never have a problem, but some will have problems and need to adjust the mesh size of MgAl they are using to get good functioning DE. And it's a good idea to make a test batch any time you get a new supply of chemical to make sure it works well before mixing a big (expensive) batch. If you are using high quality MgAl with a tight mesh range like the member here (August?) sells the better the chance they work well each time. But if using Chinese material that comes in a big drum it can depend on if you get material from the top or bottom of the drum as the bigger particles usually migrate to the top while the smaller go to the bottom. And some drums just have a wider range of particle sizes. But I've usually had good luck with my 200 mesh material that is likely Chinese manufactured.

 

Anyways, sorry for rambling and hopefully this can help if someone is having a problem. Good luck and have fun!

[MudDuckPyro79]

Yep it sure did me I'm going try the less bismuth formula Friday and give it a go. I have mg/al from fireworkscookbook.com in 30to60, 80to120, 200 to 325 and 325mesh...so I should be able to find a happy medium. But this recipe I did has a nice POP to em un primed they are primed now so we will c. Edited April 11, 2017 by MudDuckPyro79

[MudDuckPyro79]

https://youtu.be/kvDlDvyFw1k. I know the video quality sucks bUT all I have is my phone at the moment computer is at repair shop. I'll get to use my good camera then and I'll post some better quality vids but anyways here is the same batch of 8 mesh eggs primed in green mix screen mixed. There is a heaping teaspoon full in this ball of renolds wrap and they range in size from 8 to 12 mesh size. I do believe these are my new favorite thing to make other than crossettes. I love how these just make all kinds of racket Edited April 11, 2017 by MudDuckPyro79

[MudDuckPyro79]

Just wanted to fix a mistake on my part in the video, this was NOT lloyds recipe, this was a found recipe that was done using lloyds METHOD of doing a batch of crackle/dragons eggs. Thanks

[rogeryermaw]

Very crisp. Tight timing and good snap. Looks like you have a winner!

[MrB]

For me, the 37.5/37.5/25 bismuth, black copper oxide, MgAl formula worked best without adjustment, and one of, if not THE, loudest that I tried. I also usually add +5 to 10% spherical or flake Ti for a nice visual 'pop' and use 200 mesh MgAl in the formula.

 

Something often not mentioned, that i suspect have a great impact, is what NC people use. And, of course, how much.

Not that i'd know for sure. I use a lot of dragon eggs as cores for rolling stars on, but i buy them ready made. I cant compete with the price, and not having to make them saves time.

Yes, lazy way out, for sure. I might make some if i need them as a standalone effect, but as star cores, or in matrix comets, it's not really worth it, in my opinion.

B!

[lloyd]

B, it's also counter to the competition rules in most pyro organizations. Beyond "beginner" levels, a competitor must make ALL of the pyrotechnic components in an effect, except for time fuse and quickmatch.

 

Crackle cores, being important to the final effect should be made by the practicioner.

 

Jus' sayini'.

 

Now... if you're just making these things for personal enjoyment or commercial displays, then use whatever you wish!

 

Lloyd

[MrB]

Someone who is competing, should definitely adhere to the rules. Since it's illegal to be a hobbyist level pyro creator over here, there wont be any competitions...

We used to have a "commercial" competition event, Stockholm water festival, with a pyro competition, but it was discontinued 1999, since the funding no longer was provided. Supposedly the festival was actually a profitable event, but the town no longer wanted to put up the funds for it, and hence no longer gets the commercial boost it used to provide. Shame, but i don't live anywhere close to it, so i probably wouldn't have gotten to see it anyway. If i were to spend that sort of money on a trip to see fireworks, i think i'd go somewhere more... exiting.

 

Anyway, for me, pyro will always be about my personal entertainment. If i can entertain a few friends, a local neighborhood, or a small town while at it... cool.

B!

[lloyd]

And if that's what you're doing, then PROCEED! <grin>

 

Lloyd

[MudDuckPyro79]

And here is the finished product, bismuth trioxide dragon eggs primed they are made pressed thru 8 mesh screen and sorted down to 12 mesh so they vary a bit n size. Primed with rough mix 75 15 10 5.

[lloyd]

Duck, that's pretty good! As a professional doing this for a living, I'm going to make a comment that is NOT intended to criticize, only give you a perspective on what we look for.

 

In "my world", ALL those granules would have had to explode in one large fraction of a second. That's the only (ONLY) reason I selected the formula I did, and chose double-base powder for the NC lacquer, instead of single-base.

 

But (and hear me clearly)... that was GOOD crackle!

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

Lloyd, you'd be proud of the little CRASH I'm getting from my little 1" ball shells and tickled by the larger grain I include that acts as a "bottom shot"

That one larger grain is such an offset it is very noticeable. Probably doesn't hurt it is 10' off the ground when it pops!

[lloyd]

Patrick, that is a neat idea. I'd have never thought of doing that! We wouldn't have much use for that in professional close-prox stuff, but for a competition effect, it might be just the thing.

 

Lloyd

[MudDuckPyro79]

Thanks lloyd, thw way they pop is good enough for me. But if I would have spent more time to get them all the same size granules they mite have been closer together, but for what I'm gonna be doing with them nobody will notice the timing as much as the noise these lil guys make lol. I appreciate all the advice on this thread.

[rogeryermaw]

Patrick, during my early experiments with crackle, i fooled around with various ratios and metal mesh size and found some interesting things. i settled on the 37.5 : 37.5 : 25 + 10% formula but found that 200-325 mesh has very short smolder and pops fast with 8 mesh granules but much larger and they would smolder, then break apart and fizzle rather than pop. with about 75% 200 mesh and 25% 200-325, gave consistent, predictable results. when i used closer to 100 mesh, i couldn't get small granules to pop, but some cut around 1/4" sounded like a gunshot.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I think you will be amazed when you mix some up with Ti in them. I sometimes make something similar to your video and take a roll of 2" gummed tape and cut pieces long enough to wrap around a rod 1.5 to 2 times, that is roughly 3/4"-1" in diameter. I wrap tape around it dry and then wet the end to glue it together and make a cylinder. I cut a piece of visco of preferred length and then wet the inside lip of one end of the tape cylinder and pinch it together placing a piece of visco in the center and pinch tight around the fuse to make a flat joint that is sealed and let them dry. It can help to put a clothes pin on each side of the fuse so the tape doesn't pull apart and make a gap.

 

Once dry I scoop about a teaspoon or so of primed DE w/ Ti into the tape and again wet the inside lip of the other end and pinch closed and stick a clothes pin on to dry. I usually pinch 90 deg to the other side but it can be parallel or however you want.

 

I know that's not a great description but they end up looking something like the following which isn't an easy shape to find a random picture of:

 

 

The prime is enough to burst the container and they sound like a strip of firecrackers and makes a 20' diameter hemisphere of sparks going everywhere and a pretty fun ground effect in a small package that is a much safer and less trouble than things that just make 1 loud boom. You can add some BP grains if you want things to spread out more or even some crumbs left after making stars if you want a quick splash of color.

 

It can be difficult to get the full effect of things just from video and I would be curious to see a more close up video of a few eggs lit with a torch, 1 at a time. I'm just curious, if you feel like it. Though if you are completely happy with them don't worry about it.

[MudDuckPyro79]

Sure thing fla, when I get home tonight I'll get some vid of a few singles and post em. BUT I am completely happy with the end result. If there are some that uses lessential bismuth and gives close to same effect then I'm game on that too. I'm not locked in to a single thing I love learning new comps that turn out great.. Edited April 12, 2017 by MudDuckPyro79

[rogeryermaw]

i've shown this before, but i have a decent example of the crisper timing had with the 37.5 37.5 25 formula versus chinese crackle. i emptied one of the crackle balls and put a scoop of home brew d.e. inside.

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by rogeryermaw

[lloyd]

Yeah... <grin>

 

There certainly is a difference!

 

Lloyd