mabuse00 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Imagine this picture:You fill your gun with BP grains, load the patched bullet, take the rammer and ram... -> the grains will crush... Or not?For most pyro applications that's not so problematic aren't subjected to so much abuse (mostly). Lots of binder can't be the proper solution. What technique would one use, if a large press to make pucks is not available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Nope... "pressed and corned" grains will not crush (significantly) at rammer forces. Screen-granulated powders most certainly WILL crush, even at very small forces. For use in a firearm, I can only recommend properly-corned powder; for safety, as much as anything else. I've made many pounds of it on a simple LITTLE press that costs less than $100USD to make. You could make (or have made) one for a similar cost. It uses a LITTLE 2-ton hydraulic jack, a cheap iron (welded) frame, and two layers of PVC plumbing pipe (slitted and clamped) as the corning mold. I cast the pressing 'pistons' from polyester resin reinforced with 'sharp sand' (concrete sand). Like this:http://www.pyrobin.com/files/press_1.gif Edited March 31, 2017 by lloyd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) I have used home made BP in a rifle (3 shots)without problem I used 100 grains by volume in a rifle that handles 150. Actually it was as accurate as pyrodex as far as those 3 shots. It was granulated - but corned is standard. I would not recommend using granulated. In this instance I carefully seated the bullet but without using excessive force. If I were to intend on using my BP for shooting I would use corned as you will get more consistent results and are less likely to have a accident even in a rifle. Granulated would easily crush with the loading ram in a pistol. I can't feel the seating like in a rifle. I would make it as Lloyd suggests. Corned is the way to go with rifle and especially pistol. BP goes a long way in a pistol especially if you enjoy cleaning them as much as I do😖 Edited March 31, 2017 by Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) I made my own press pretty much the same way as Lloyd described. I got 2 pieces of 8" channel iron from a salvage yard for real cheap. I used 3/4" threaded rods for the uprights. When I cast my "pistons" out of polyester, I used chopped up fiberglass matting for reinforcement instead of the concrete sand. The bottle jack was the most expensive part of it all. Ive thought of welding reinforcement steel on the channel iron, but after using it several times decided it wasn't necessary.I got a little anal-retentive about not using any binders in my BP, and this press was able to get enough pressure to make solid hard grains by simply wetting my mill dust with a small percentage of 25/75 alcohol/water. I've done baseball tests with my corned BP vs. granulated w/binder and the corned BP performed slightly better (some on these forums find that hard to believe, but the results are consistent). Edited March 31, 2017 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 If you use a smaller puck tool then you could use a much smaller press but at half inch you'd need to press lots of BP "stars" then corn and grade them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Pucks are the way to go, less fines and more gradeable BP. I load my 45-70 with homemade BP and it gives me the same velocity as commercial BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabuse00 Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 Thanks. So there is no other way. How much pressure on the BP do you need to get the desired hardness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Someone posted a tutorial for adding a pressure gauge to a bottle jack on these forums (don't remember exacly where it is). Then you have to do some math to calculate the actual pressure impressed on your BP cup. I didn't really bother with that but rather went by density. I believe the target density is 1.7 g/cc. So I just figured the area of my cup, weighed out how much mill dust I added and pressed it to a particular thickness. Properly pressed, your pucks should "clink" when tapped together. One little bit of advice, don't let your pucks dry completely before breaking them up and sizing them. Properly pressed, they get very hard when totally dry. I usually let them dry for about 30-45 minutes, then break them up and size them thourgh a screen.One thing to remember; if you use my method of weighing and pressing to a thickness, you have to subtract out the weight of the water added to the mill dust. I don't get too testicular when making my powder. For example, I don't really measure out the water added, but go more by "feel". I do know, from previous measuring that my water is around 6%, so I just shoot for a slightly higher density when pressing. But, I'm making BP for fireworks not firearms, so... I would guess that the most important thing for firearms would be consistency from batch to batch Edited April 1, 2017 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Yeah... Just calculate the volume of your mold that will give 1.7g/cc with a particular mass of un-pressed powder (NOT volume), then make a mark to represent that density, and press to the mark. Lloyd Edited April 1, 2017 by lloyd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Lloyd, I guess I just talk too much. You put everything I said in a neat nutshell! To make everything real easy; I use a 2" cylinder and pistons. So, If I put 23 grams of mill dust in it and press to 1/4" thickness, I get 1.79 g/cc. Edited April 1, 2017 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I have a split pump and soda can spacers, add a scoop (it's all written down by my press) of moistened mill dust, plop in a spacer, drop the plunger in and press to 3000LPI om my gauge, hold it there for 30 seconds, retract the ram, pull out the plunger, add a spacer and repeat. I can get about 10 pucks in the pump before having to empty it. I asked someone to figure out the math for me but its a 3" diameter pump and they told me to use all the pressure I had in the press to get it to 1.7g/cc. Does it get it to 1.7? I don't know, it does work fine though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 A 3" diameter pump has an area of 7.065 in^2 or 45.58 cm^2. If you want to make a puck that is about a 1/4" thick so call it 6mm instead. This would give a volume of the puck 27.35 cc. So to get a density of 1.7 g/cc you will multiply the volume by the desired density to get the required amount of powder in grams. Here, that would be 46.5 grams of powder not including any water you might add. It really isn't hard to figure this stuff out if you look at the units. Make sure you know what units are in the numbers you are using, such as 1.7 g/cc, and convert everything to centimeters. Then look at the units to see if you need to divide or multiply or whatever necessary to get the units right. So if you want weight and you have a density and a volume you would multiply the density by the volume and if you write the units you will see that the cubic centimers cancel out (one on top and the other on bottom thus canceling) which leaves you with the unit of grams which is what you want. Just always convert to like units and write the unit down with the number and see how the units work out. If you know what the units should be for the answer, many times you don't even need to know the formula just by seeing what needs to happen to get the units to work out right. If you want a better explanation I will get on my computer and give some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtoivowillmann Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 My dear Mabuse: I already did so: home-made Black Poder in a Flint-Lock-muzzle-loader pistol. It worked:* Make, by milling, your best home-made meal-black powder!* Moisten with water to granulate.* Granulate and screen, using a sieve with 2 mm wide stitching.* Dry perfectly and remove dust and too coarse grains by sieving again, with finer and coarser sieves. Loading your gun:Why to ram???* measure volumetrically the right charge and pour into the bore.* put onto the muzzle the round lead projectile with its oiled patch.* - smooth barrel: projectile and patch easily can be pushed in, merely by handforce, without any "ramming", - rifled barrel: you give only in the very beginning a knock with a wooden or rubber hammer onto the projectile, just to force it into the riflings. But then, only with the force of your hand, you push it onto the powder charge, without pressing so much. * Good luck to hit your target! Yours truly: Toivo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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