vol47 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Has anyone made any stars using Boron Carbide? I know Ian von Maltitz's has done some work in this area but have not seen any other info on it's use. If you have, what kind of results did you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Never heard of it's being used before but it apparently makes a decent green without added chlorine donors according to the military info I read just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vol47 Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 I'd say "decent" is questionable. Also hard to ignite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hell, I have 20lbs of barium nitrate so I'm golden..er...green for a while. No need to go there yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I've seen a test of the boron carbide green. Not very impressive, at all! Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 It's not very cheap either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vol47 Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 All true. I think the main reason it has been tried at all is it is non toxic compared to Barium compounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Eh... Toxicity has partly to do with how 'dangerous' a substance is, but it also has to do with how much is released into the environment. A good bet (based upon a lengthy and detailed Disney study of it) is that the amounts of barium compounds released even on a nightly fireworks venue like a Disney park don't exceed normal environmental 'background levels', when taken from soil and water samples in the display area. I don't like using 'toxic' substances, but given their almost-zero environmental impact vs. other industrial sources of those same contaminants, I'm pretty happy with what we are doing, as an art. Maybe we still need an accounting to see what we can do to reduce those contaminations, but OUR contribution is damned-small! Lloyd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I don't know exactly what it was, but I've seen an "experimental competition green" that was based on boron and was pretty darn impressive. Looked like the new LED traffic light green and fairly bright like a metal fueled star would be. Don't know much more than it had some type of boron in it and it was really expensive to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Pyro compounding is always price sensitive. no-one buys the expensive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) I have only heard, but don't know first-hand, that elemental boron can produce wonderful greens. Unfortunately, elemental boron is crazy expensive. Edited February 12, 2017 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vol47 Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Boron carbide is considerably less expensive (about $43/lb on Ebay) than Boron powder ($109/lb from Firefox). It is used as an abrasive. But, as indicated, it makes an unimpressive green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I first read about boron carbide from the releases out of Picatinny Arsenal several years ago. I believe they were being developed as a flare alternative. There was some spin around fireworks and all that, but I don't believe it was their real purpose. One of the patents on the matter uses a mixture of boron and boron carbide. This may be to both address the cost of elemental boron, and the poor color production ability of boron carbide. Boron also renders compositions fairly sensitive. I don't know if the colored stars suffer from this issue, but the boron carbide may help to mitigate it. https://www.google.com/patents/US8282749 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave321 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 the military , I think pa, were evaluating boron carbide as a component in low toxicity smoke formulations,I have a pdf on it somewhere if needed. and yes lower toxicity green flares were also been looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 The papers I read on the use of boron were for green flares. I'll stick with barium, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I would like to see the info about the low toxicity smoke. And heck, why not the green flare info as well. Let me know what the best way to get the info is Dave. If emailing the .pdf is easier than digging thru it trying to find pertinent info just let me know or shoot me a message. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 https://www.google.com/patents/US8282749 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Here's a couple more. Smoke:http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA563733 Flare:https://www.google.com/patents/US20090320975 I have several more, but they're behind journal paywalls. I can give you the citations if you'd like anyway if you just want to check out the abstracts or have some way of gaining access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Thanks, I will start with these links and if my interest is piqued I might ask for the names of others. I was thinking about this a bit more and now I do remember elemental boron being the expensive component in the really great stars I mentioned before, but again, that was the only info given. It seems like I've seen similar discussion in the past and others had found small particle boron from Chinese sources that were in the area of $35-$40 per pound. Would still be quite expensive. It also seems like I've seen boron carbide in Harbor Freight as an abrasive for not too absurd prices. But I could be completely off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 HF does have Boron Carbide abrasive grit often in small batches for air etchers. I use it for etching glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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