deltawar567 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 So I want to get my explosives license but not sure what magazines to buy. I want to store chemicals such as ammonium nitrate, potassium perchrolate, german blackhead. Things like that. What class would I need to get for magazine storages? How much would it cost me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) You don't need a magazine for those. You can store them in your kitchen as far as the ATF is concerned. The only thing you need to put in the magazine are mixed compositions and actual explosives (ie. your BP, stars, completed fireworks, etc) . A type 4 magazine would suffice for almost everything you could possibly make as an amateur pyro, unless you want to make a truck load of salutes, then you might need a type 1. Here is two links that might be helpful: http://blog.skylighter.com/fireworks/2009/06/fireworking-safety-and-law.html https://www.atf.gov/file/58741/download Edited July 25, 2015 by gregh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ingredients usually have less onerous storage requirements than products or intermediates, The usual killer is separation distance between huts and from the group of huts to the nearest "public space" and other buildings or homes. If you need to worry about some storage containers you haven't realised how many more issued there will be with production buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well I want to buy more than the consumer limit of chemicals. It would be fun to make exploding targets. Want to make giant booms without the feds on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) AN is getting targeted by the feds due to people using it to make meth and some of the industrial accidents that have occurred with it in bulk. You will have a hard time making big booms without attracting attention. What are these "consumer limits" for chemicals you speak of? While some vendors have a policy to only sell large amounts to those with a license, it is not law. Edited July 25, 2015 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 I think you are only allowed 50 lbs per chemical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Is there any chemical out there that can't be used to make meth?? How in the world do people make meth with AN?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) This is not the appropriate place for details on clandestine drug production, so I am being vague. They were using anhydrous ammonia stolen from farmers but have switched to using AN and lye or ether to help extract and convert the amphetamine from psuedophedrine. I only get this information from pertinent bulletins related to my job and needing to keep myself safe when the manufacturers need medical attention. There are several different recipes, but cold packs and targets are the next casualty due to this drug like cold medicine was a few years ago. Edited July 25, 2015 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Skylighter.com is very strict on selling chemicals such as potassium perchrolate, not sure if they sell AN. Chemicalsupplyusa.com sells 50 lbs bulk of AN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Like I said, that is the policy of some suppliers. This stems from an injunction against a few by the CPSC and a policy change as an agreement. It is not LAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 What i meant by consumer limit is the limit of chemicals you can buy per year. With an ATFEM license can I buy more than the limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I don't think there's any legal restrictions on how much chemicals consumers can get, but many suppliers have a policy (mostly due to injunctions) to limit quantity unless you have an explosive license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well I will eventually start making my own potassium perchrolate. Just bought a ball mill for aluminum powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Good luck getting and keeping a license just to make boomers. Edited July 27, 2015 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Why on earth do you need a ball mill for aluminum powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 You can make aluminum powder with a ball mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Yes, I can also make powdered sugar with a ball mill. Why would I need to? I can buy it much easier. Just like I can buy Aluminum powder much easier than I can make it! You were inquiring about an ATF license, so you are obviously in the States, so you can buy it just as easily as I. Here, look at this: http://ubpyro.com/2015GillettePGIChemPriceList1.0.pdf There is a price for ordering 20+ 110lb barrels of Indian Blackhead Aluminum. There are no limits! Unless you are simply wanting to do it for the novelty of spending a week of ballmilling the Al to make 100g, there is absolutely no reason. Hey, you can also get barrels of perc while you are at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Yeah but buying barrels of perc I would need atfeml. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Do they sell german blackhead on ubpyro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Like others have said there are no LEGAL limits to buying perchlorate, in fact you can buy multi ton quantities if you got the money for it. Some suppliers like Firefox and skylighter have limits because of lawsuits. ATF license can be easy or hard to get, depending on the place you live in and if you got enough separation distance on property. If you live out in the boonies then it shouldn't be hard but if you live in any average suburban or semi urban settings, it can be impossible to get. Of course one serious disadvantage of living out in the boonies is you may have little to no internet availability. Even dial up could not be an option since they could have phone infrastructure from the 1950's. Back on topic, the ATF license also subjects your property to regular inspections, so if you don't mind Federal agents coming over regularly (and dinging you on minor paperwork mistakes) then by all means try to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You do NOT need a license to buy any of it! Do you not pay attention to anything people are telling you? There is very little difference in performance of German and Indian blackhead. I am guessing it's going to be used for some type of M80 from your posts. Enjoy your fingers while you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Where could I buy endless amounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Most direct suppliers of bulk pyrotechnic chemicals (Service Chemical, Hummel Croton, etc) will request an ATF license before doing business with you. This is not a legal requirement. It is simply a business practice used to decrease personal liability, and to weed out any customers not serious about doing business. I really don't think you're understanding this. There is no legal requirement to have a license to purchase or own any quantity of most pyrotechnic chemicals. Certain sellers willingly sell to hobbyists in bulk quantities. The one you mentioned was ammonium nitrate. I'm uncertain on the storage requirements of this material. It may be a matter of grade acquired or seeking to be acquired. One of the few things that come to mind that there is an established limit on, is commercial black powder. You can own and store up to 50lbs of this without any specialized storage, when it is used for sporting, cultural, or other approved purposes. As far as magazines go, most people either use a type 4 or go all out and build a type 1. Type 4 magazines can be converted Jobox type of containers. Type 1 are often built out of cinder blocks. All the details are in the ATF literature linked to earlier. Bulk whistle and flash powder or devices containing these mixtures are often in a grey area between high and low explosives. Several people I know went with a high explosive manufacturing license, and an accompanying type 1 magazine, just to cover all their bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 One word: Precursors If you buy both finely divided aluminum and perc, you will have the precursors in your possession. If you have a finished salute, you have proved intent for them (police), (they will thank you). Without a license, you will be charged with a felony or several ranging from "possession of an infernal machine" to "possession of a weapon of mass destruction". I just saw a type 4 magazine that was just approved last month, it was a simple job box, undercoating was the insulator, to locks on gravel. He will also be getting a type 1 magazine (very small one) as well to cover his posterior. BP is limited to #5 in my area, City Ordnance is stricter so it takes precedence over the Fed rule. Honestly? Call the ATF, ask them about what you want to do, I promise they will not come hunting for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawar567 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 So i am fine if i buy the chemicals seperately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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