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WARNING TO ALL HOBBIEST's , visco is now REGULATED by BATFE


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#1 pyroman2498

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 06:16 PM

Pyrotechnic Hobby Fuse Exemption

The Federal explosives laws at 18 U.S.C. §845(a)(4) and the
implementing regulations at 27 CFR 555.141(a)(4) generally
exempt small arms ammunition and components of small arms
ammunition.  The regulation at 27 CFR 555.11 defines
“Ammunition” in relevant part, as, “Small arms ammunition or
cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or smokeless propellants
designed for use in small arms, including percussion caps,
and 3⁄32 inch and other external burning pyrotechnic hobby
fuses...”.

ATF has long held that the term “small arms ammunition”
pertains to .50 caliber or smaller rifle or handgun ammunition,
as well as certain shotgun ammunition.  The regulations at
27 CFR 555.141(a)(7) generally exempt the importation,
distribution, and storage of fireworks classified as UN0336,
UN0337, UN0431, or UN0432 explosives by the U.S. Department
of Transportation (DOT) at 49 CFR 172.101—consumer fireworks
and articles pyrotechnic as defined in 27 CFR 555.11.

Consumer fireworks are typically manufactured and initiated
with pyrotechnic fuse designed specifically to meet DOT and
Consumer Product Safety Commission requirements.  Therefore,
3⁄32 inch and other external burning pyrotechnic hobby fuses
are exempt from the provisions in 27 CFR, Part 555—Commerce
in Explosives, only when: 1) they are designed for use in
small arms ammunition; or 2) integrated into consumer fireworks
or articles pyrotechnic during the manufacturing process.

Pyrotechnic fuses (e.g., time fuse, quickmatch, sticky match)
designed for use in fireworks manufacturing or in other
fireworks activities and that are not integrated into consumer
fireworks or articles pyrotechnic are not exempt from ATF’s
explosives regulations.

Hence, persons engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing,
or distributing pyrotechnic fuse not designed for use in small
arms ammunition, and not integrated in consumer fireworks or
articles pyrotechnic, must possess an ATF explosives license.

Persons acquiring pyrotechnic fuse not designed for use in
small arms ammunition and not integrated in consumer fireworks
or articles pyrotechnic must, among other requirements:

1) possess an ATF explosives license or permit appropriate
   for their operations;

2) store the fuse in an explosives storage magazine pursuant
   to the requirements at 27 CFR 555, Subpart K — Storage; and

3) maintain records pursuant to the requirements at 27 CFR 555,
   Subpart G — Records and Reports.

Individuals may contact ATF’s Explosives Industry Programs Branch
for specific pyrotechnic fuse determinations.


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#2 patsroom

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:19 PM

If I have read this correctly it is stated in paragraph three (3) and paragraph four (4) that "3⁄32 inch and other external burning pyrotechnic hobby fuses are exempt from the provisions in 27 CFR, Part 555". This is also applied to small arms as is noted in the regulations. But I would be cautious as to how it could still be applied. If a ATF officer was to question you and you can not prove it to them they could haul you off to jail on a catch-22 law.

Wait! Did I say I don't trust them? :ph34r:

Innocent till proven guilty is a myth, it is you must prove your innocents. So yes I would say watch out on this one...............Pat



#3 dagabu

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:02 PM

 

Innocent till proven guilty is a myth, it is you must prove your innocents. So yes I would say watch out on this one...............Pat

 

Great quote Pat.  there has been much discussion as of late as to the cavalier attitude some have to possession. 


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#4 Davidg1

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:05 PM

You think you have it bad.

Try living in the UK. Basically,we have to be licensed to be hobbyists and then we cannot get hold of chemicals to perform our hobby with.



#5 taiwanluthiers

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:24 PM

Is this a new ruling, or has it been part of the established rules for a while? If it's a new ruling, when is it in effect?

 

Also how does this affect using fuses for cannons? They are not small arms as far as that's concerned.

 

Some also use fuses for chaining multiple fireworks to light them at the same time, is that also illegal?


Edited by taiwanluthiers, 10 January 2015 - 08:26 PM.


#6 pyroman2498

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 09:04 PM

it recently came out in the Newest BATFE news letter so im guessing its pretty new ( December's edition ) ill post the link here

 

https://www.atf.gov/...tterdec2014.pdf

 

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#7 rogeryermaw

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 01:19 AM

would this not cover out usage? what we make at home should fall under articles pyrotechnic, or am i misinterpreting?

 

Federal explosives regulations generally exempt the importation, distribu­tion, and storage of “articles pyrotechnic,” as defined under the regulation at 27 CFR 555.11.  This section defines “articles pyrotechnic” as “Pyrotechnic devices for professional use similar to consumer fireworks in chemical composition and construction but not intended for consumer use. Such articles meeting the weight limits for consumer fireworks, but not labeled as such, and classified by U.S. Department of Transportation regula­tions in 49 CFR 172.101 as UN0431 or UN0432.”

 

source: https://www.atf.gov/content/explosives/explosives-industry/fireworks 

 

how are hobbyist devices classified? not consumer or display and the majority of us certainly aren't professionals. better stock up now....


Edited by rogeryermaw, 11 January 2015 - 01:25 AM.

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#8 Sparx88

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 02:46 AM

Well this sure as shit sounds like another load of crap dropped from the Non pyro elite club. I mean really, whats the easiest way to take away a hobby pyro's activities....fuse. Sure we can make analogs or less than ideal replacements.. but is that really what people want is making a hobby that will never die less safe by taking away one of the most important items we trust for our safety and making it less safe and opening it up to illegal black market schemes therefore creating another avenue to come spank on ol sparky boys like us. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

 

Am I missing the boat, not sure here...maybe I'm a little sloow but, does this apply to all those safe and sane fireworks stands that pop up around the holidays that sell fountains and the like, they are not allowed to sell safety fuse without an explosives license?


Edited by Sparx88, 11 January 2015 - 04:17 AM.

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#9 taiwanluthiers

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:55 AM

You know some really old firearms use fuse... like that Chinese bamboo stick thing.



#10 nater

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 11:16 AM

Hobbiest devices are just unclassified explosives. It does not matter if it is a small smoke bomb or a 100# + shell.

I actually do not use a ton of visco or time fuse, so I am not terribly concerned. Spolettes are easy to make and I can brush up on making black match if I need to.
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#11 ORMDale

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 01:44 PM

I'm thinking a 50 caliber cannon similar to the one shown might be a good investment for any pyro hobbyist that's not ATF licensed, Seems it would cover you on BP, and now Visco,

 

http://www.cabelas.c...nnon/706191.uts



#12 pyroman2498

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 02:17 PM

Hobbiest devices are just unclassified explosives. It does not matter if it is a small smoke bomb or a 100# + shell.

I actually do not use a ton of visco or time fuse, so I am not terribly concerned. Spolettes are easy to make and I can brush up on making black match if I need to.

I use to use spolettes for my ball and cylinder shells so I agree on that , but blackmatch can jump and ignite things quicker than you would want to and can pose a great safety risk for hobbyist and professionals.

 

Stay Safe and Stay Green

 

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#13 FLMark

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 02:20 PM

www.pocketartillery.com- $34 for a small desktop cannon on Amazon, appears to use Visco :)

#14 taiwanluthiers

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:03 PM

time fuse saves time... so it's good to have. Sad that I had to throw away a whole good roll of it.

 

I'm just not even sure these laws even agree with each other. I think that if the ATF really wanted to prosecute you, they'll just arrest you and let the courts sort it out. You will of course spend a ton of money on lawyers to prove that you followed the law in the first place. Of course if you have an explosive license, then you have to follow the laws to the letter since you are on their radar (but then visco would be a non issue anyways as long as they're in the magazine).

 

Best course of action is to not let any law enforcement types in your house AT ALL unless they are legally allowed to enter your home due to probable cause or search warrants (in that case they wouldn't even ask, they will just barge in). When an officer comes to your door and asks if they can come in, DO NOT GIVE CONSENT unless they show a search warrant.



#15 gregh

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:42 PM

www.pocketartillery.com- $34 for a small desktop cannon on Amazon, appears to use Visco :)

 

Even if you had a cannon, yes, you would have a legitimate reason to buy visco, however, you still have to have a type 4 magazine to put it in to be legal.  If you have one of those, you can just get your license and no need for the cannon...   Damned if you do, damned if you don't!



#16 asdercks

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 05:13 PM

Better stock while you can!!! seems that electronic firing and spolettes are going to be the only option left for the ones who don't have an ATF license, what a low blow to the pyro community. I guess some vendors will go through difficult times  :(


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#17 taiwanluthiers

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 05:17 PM

if you have the cannon then it's exempt from the explosive regulation and you don't need a magazine. Same as commercial blackpowder.



#18 Sparx88

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 06:03 PM

Another thing, why is it that we the people don't get to vote on or have any say on new laws like this? Who the hell do they think they are speaking for everybody. I mean we get to have say in laws making pot legal if more people support it than not. I don't live in a state that has it legal but if it were to throw up a vote I would vote favourably even though I don't use it. So with a scheduled drug that has put countless people in prisons we get to share in the decision making but not for a harmless thing like fuse. Thats like the Gov deciding that bullets can't be bought without an explosives license, but you can have the gun. And bullets explode. So what then? Make the firing pins and strikers illegal to own unless you have a FFL? Yeah I'm having vent session here.

 

Heres where it does'nt make sense to me in another way...are we supposed to show our explosives license or a cannon to the establishment that we are to purchase the fuse from? Are the dealers going to have to keep records, photos etc on file for each person who buys the fuse? And what about this, will any photo or video uploaded by individuals, that show the use of any type of visco in anything other than a cannon or legally manufactured consumer fireworks, to any of the websites that host them, grounds for probable cause for search warrant? This crap could end up hurting a lot of decent people who have a love for a hobby. I'm sure the kind folks behind this are already roaming the pyro sites like this to see the reactions. I bet some are even chuckling at all of the complaints. :angry:

 

Welp, guess theres one thing we gotta do then, get our legal cards and everything set up by the book, and do it legal in da face, in da face.


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#19 AldoSPyro

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 06:32 PM

WAIT WTF HAPPENED!!??? DID THEY BAN VISCO!!


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#20 gregh

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 06:47 PM

Sparx88-  I'm sure the kind folks behind this are already roaming the pyro sites like this to see the reactions.

 


 

 

I know the page over at pyrouniverse is blowing up.  No pun intended...  :P


Edited by gregh, 11 January 2015 - 06:49 PM.





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