taiwanluthiers Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So from my understanding, in the US you are allowed to make explosives (at least according to Federal law), but you can't transport or sell it (you could store it if you have compliant storage) without a license. With that in mind how does an unlicensed person take their shells/lift/etc. to a shoot site, or to a PGI convention? Do they have to ask a licensed person to transport it for them? How does that work? Or do people at PGI just make the shell on the spot and shoot it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddewees Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 You have to give it to a licensed person... and I mean give it. It then becomes their property. If they're nice, they'll let you shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 So I take it PGI have arrangements to have a licensed person in your area come take your fireworks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 read thishttp://www.pgi.org/convention/transport.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eb11 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 so if I make shells for my own use transport them to my 4th shoot site for my family members to watch am I now in violation because I am transporting them for my own use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yes, you cannot transport or "cause to be transported" without a license. That means giving them to someone else without a license to transport would get you both in trouble. Unfortunately, unless you have a licensee close by to transport, you have to build where you shoot, or shoot where you build. That is the big obstacle many face in this hobby. Also, the licensee cannot legally give them back to you once they are in his/her possession, since you don't have a license. Like ddewes said, if they are nice, they can let you light em, but you can't have them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks265 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If you make explosives (fireworks (or parts of)) without a license, you can use it that same day, but only where you made it and of course the locals permit you to do so. You cannot transport explosives off of said property without someone with a BATFE license taking control of it. With a license you can transport explosives and store explosives in an approved magazine. The PGI had a "Gentleman's" agreement for bringing product to the event when the person was not licensed, this has changed and the letter of the law must be followed to be legal. The Department of Transportation and the BATFE both have their own rule set. This is where it gets confusing because the BATFE doesn't care how it's moved but the DOT does. The canary in the coal mine is if you are selling (or in commerce), because if you are the DOT will really love you, if you're not selling you could be carrying 1000 pounds and they won't care! With certain levels of licensing you can sell explosives and others you can't. As a hobbyist you surely don't want to go there! If you are unlicensed and want to move product legally you would have to "give" it to a licensed individual. In the case of the PGI event it is no problem to then use your material, you just simply lost ownership of it until it turns to ashes in a legal sense :-) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eb11 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 so I can go to the fireworks store and buy thousands of dollars of fireworks and ride down the road no problem. makes no sense. I don't build shells bigger than 2 inch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks265 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 so I can go to the fireworks store and buy thousands of dollars of fireworks and ride down the road no problem. makes no sense. I don't build shells bigger than 2 inch In my State they give you a permit to transport when you buy and then you have to go to the town to get a permit to shoot it in the town you wish to shoot it in (to be legal). But yes because it is approved fireworks for consumers with EX numbers and such for consumer use you can throw 1000 pounds in your Prius and drive down the road. It may not make much sense but is how it works. Display fireworks or 1.3 product requires a license and not available otherwise. When you make your own product it is not commercially approved and considered 1.3. Consumer product is 1.4. "1.3 and 1.4" are DOT designations and are used for "drawing the line" simply put for who can use, transport, and store which type of firework. Are you confused yet??? It can be a headache until you realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eb11 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 for 2 years now I have transported 240 2 inch shells I have made plus about 20 cakes I have bought so I don't know I think its dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's not a big fucking deal to get a license or permit- commercial stuff isn't even comparable to homeade stuff-- honestly just read the link I posted above, from top to bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yea you can also transport destructive devices and illegal drugs for years without trouble, but if you get pulled over, and the cops search your car, expect trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eb11 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) my problem is I live in a neighborhood and fireworks in my town are not allowed but in my state they are so I fly under the radar. to test my shells I have a friend who has a pit so I go there and no suspitions are raised Edited November 22, 2014 by eb11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks265 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yea you can also transport destructive devices and illegal drugs for years without trouble, but if you get pulled over, and the cops search your car, expect trouble. So that's how the terrorists do it! They just don't ask to transport IEDs and such, they just do it. Interesting concept, Kind of goes with drinking and driving and carrying loading guns in cars or going 62 mph in a 55 mph speed limit. Once you know the risk it is also nice to know the consequences too. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Display fireworks are interesting with transportation laws. Assuming they are legally acquired and being handled by someone with the proper license, permit or employee possesor letter, they can only be transported placcards and a commercial hazmat driver when you are in commerce. If you are transporting them for personal use, you CANNOT placcard your vehicle per the DOT regulations. This means you can and have to transport 1000 lbs of 1.3 shells for a personal show in an umarked trailer. So much for keeping us first responders aware of potential hazards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Display fireworks are interesting with transportation laws. Assuming they are legally acquired and being handled by someone with the proper license, permit or employee possesor letter, they can only be transported placcards and a commercial hazmat driver when you are in commerce. If you are transporting them for personal use, you CANNOT placcard your vehicle per the DOT regulations. This means you can and have to transport 1000 lbs of 1.3 shells for a personal show in an umarked trailer. So much for keeping us first responders aware of potential hazards. I dont think this is true, the 1000 pound rule only applies to un0336 (1.4g) (and only in certain circumstances). ANY display fireworks have to be transported by someone with a hazmat CDL, log book, registered vehicle, chemtec no. placards, shipping papers, drug testing, 5 million dollar insurance. I probably missed something, but being legal in the business of display fireworks isnt a small thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Nope, DOT regulations are only involved when money or services are being exchanged. When it is for personal use, 1.3 fireworks can still only be purchased and handled by those with the proper papers, but transportation is different. What an unlicensed individual makes, is not 1.3 or 1.4, but just unclassified explosives. Any transportation needs to be done by a person with a license. Unclassified explosives cannot legally be used in a commercial display. There is a lot of factors with site insurance at play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Id like to see where you found it written that <1000 pounds of 1.1 1.2 1.3 -out of commerce- is exempted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Id like to see where you found it written that <1000 pounds of 1.1 1.2 1.3 -out of commerce- is exempted Soooo, look it up then. This is really old news to most PGI folk, it gets rehashed every year about July when people write in on the PML asking about transportation. No need to come off so adversarial with this one, Nater is just trying to clarify, not attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I sit down with the dot once a year and I was told that any 1.1 1.2 and 1.3 need be treated as >1000lb of 1.4 I'd just like to see where "most pgi folk" are getting this answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AldoSPyro Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Ok, this post seems really interesting. But as far I know, there are no licensed people who live near me to transport my shells and my state wont allow me to make or shoot off shells even if its legal under federal law. So could I just bring components and assemble it at the PGI, and shoot it off myself? Or will I still have to get all these ridiculous papers and magazines and stuff like that?c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I sit down with the dot once a year and I was told that any 1.1 1.2 and 1.3 need be treated as >1000lb of 1.4 I'd just like to see where "most pgi folk" are getting this answer PML or the PGI Mailing List, sign up and ask the president and the BOD, I assure you, this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Ok, this post seems really interesting. But as far I know, there are no licensed people who live near me to transport my shells and my state wont allow me to make or shoot off shells even if its legal under federal law. So could I just bring components and assemble it at the PGI, and shoot it off myself? Or will I still have to get all these ridiculous papers and magazines and stuff like that?c Sorry about all that chatter: Yes, bring all your components to PGI and make it all there but I would encourage you to keep looking for some licensed. If you are a PGI member, just post a request offline for what you need. If pyros are anything, they are generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 PML or the PGI Mailing List, sign up and ask the president and the BOD, I assure you, this is the case. Would you tell a DOT roadie or a cop the same? To join a mailing list and/or ask the president of a hobbyist club? A hazmat trained officer explained it to me as I have explained above, and until I see official DOT published literature that says otherwise, I will continue to operate as I have heretofore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/390.3 This title is for the hazmat regulations. Note that it is only applicable for those engaged in interstate and intrastate commerce and those who engage in transporting personal goods with no commercial intent are specifically excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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