Ball Mill or chemicals?

[Cc2014]

Ok, so I have set aside some money to invest in some chemicals / equipment. I will of course be using some of this money for safety equipment, but I am not sure what to do with the remainder. My choices:

Buy a ball mill to produce my own aluminium powder, and buy a relatively small amount of other necessary chemicals

OR

Buy a lot of chemicals, including aluminium powder, but no ball mill.


I am just get started in pyrotechnics, so I am not sure what would suite me better. I am guessing that in the long run it would be better to have a ball mill as aluminium powder is extremely expensive and really hard to find where I am from, however, as I said I am just getting started, so is there really any need for a ball mill? I plan on getting some experience and making some basic black powder rockets, so a ball mill would be really helpful in that case. I plan to start with flash powder, and then make firecrackers once I get some experience making flash powder.

I would imagine that buying a ball mill and a smaller amount of chemicals would be the better option, but I am just looking for some opinions. A large amount of my budget would be spent on a motor and pulleys for the ball mill, leaving a bit over half of my budget for chemicals.

Thanks.

[MrB]

You really need a ball mill. I'm not sure the first thing you should get in to is milling aluminum for your pyro needs, reactive metals have their issues when milling, but you really should get a ball mill.

B!

[Col]

You could buy or build a small mill and add a larger one later when funds allow. Large mills are great if you need a kilo or two in a hurry ,not so good for 100g

[BurritoBandito]

I'd get the mill. The single most important composition used in pyrotechnics is BP, and you'll need a mill to make good BP.

[Maserface]

Id go for chems- ball milling really isnt necessary. BALLS HOT bp can be made with a mill, but shit BP can be made to work just the same. not gonna comment on the firecracker part XD I am surprised they havent lit the torches yet

[Arthur]

Firstly there is no way that you could make/mill all the grades of aluminium that you will want, so buy them. I did once read a web page that indicated that drink cans and Al foil were successfully milled to pyro grades but it took four weeks to make fine powder, -not worth it!

[pyroman2498]

Ok, aluminium powder is extremely expensive and really hard to find where I am from, however, as I said I am just getting started, so is there really any need for a ball mill? I plan on getting some experience and making some basic black powder rockets, so a ball mill would be really helpful in that case. I plan to start with flash powder, and then make firecrackers once I get some experience making flash powder.

I would imagine that buying a ball mill and a smaller amount of chemicals would be the better option, but I am just looking for some opinions. A large amount of my budget would be spent on a motor and pulleys for the ball mill, leaving a bit over half of my budget for chemicals.

Thanks.

I have allot to say to this one post but I will condense and just get to the important stuff , first thing is first , if you think AL is expensive than you will be surprised when you see some other chemicals ,

2. Don't mill Al as you may think it will save you money , when you get burned when you open the jar lid than the hospital bills come in and you will wish you would have bought the Al

3.yay! Black powder rockets , finally a different fun topic , black powder rockets are great fun and I definitely recemend making some small rockets and fountains to start

4.time to light the torch on this , DONT start with flash ( this is a guy who can speak from experience ) Flash just causes unnecessary attention to yourself you don't need , second it's extremely dangerous and you can't just keep making flash till you think your good than just throw it away or fill a giant tube , no one ever becomes "good" at mixing flash , they should always realize that it can and will kill you if it goes off in your face,and if that scares you than good , it's suppose to ..Don't make flash when you have 0 experience ... Please trust me on this ...

5. Think long and hard about how much you want to manufacture and such before you make the decision to make or buy one .... If you make one you can drop 600$ on the mill and than another 300-500$ on the media if you want the mill we use at our club , if you want a hobby mill the mill will cost your 50 or so $ than the media will be about another 50$ and you can be on your way making those awesome rockets just gotta get the tooling ( or make it ) and your good to go

I hope you take my words of advice somewhat seriously

 

Stay Safe and Stay Green

 

~Steven

Edited October 29, 2014 by pyroman2498

[Bobosan]

Everything everyone else has said...get the hobby mill, get the lead media and then the three basic chems for black powder, four if you count dextrin. That may stretch your budget a bit but it's a good start for a beginner.

[otto]

I'm a bit of a new guy here myself and have learned a lot over the past couple years of just absorbing the wealth of what is here.

 

My 2 cents: do not skimp on PPE and wear it religiously. As noted above this is not a low risk undertaking. Sure, good knowledge and procedures go a long way to making sure everything goes as planned but in that unplanned moment, when things go sideways, an uncontrolled reaction at the wrong time can cost you dearly. I'll assume that you may be much like me and just want to have some fun. There's plenty of that to be had, the goal is to keep it on the fun side.

[tumbler]

Take it for what it's worth, but here would be my shopping list for a new pyro. Assuming PPE has already been acquired.

 

Books:

"Fireworks: The Art, Science and Technique"

"Fireworks, Principles and Practice"

 

Fuse:

Visco

Time Fuse

Super fast paper fuse (can harvest black match and it also makes a good substitute for quick match)

 

Chems:

KNO3

Sulfur

 

Retort:

Cast iron dutch oven (http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-L10DOL3-Pre-Seasoned-Handles-7-Quart/dp/B000SOM5XS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414612478&sr=8-1&keywords=7+qt+cast+iron+dutch+oven)

 

Ball Mill:

Harbor Freight 6lb rock tumbler with the Skylighter mod.

5lbs 1/2 inch hardened lead balls

2lbs 1/2 inch alumina cylinders

 

Screens:

Mesh 10, 40, 60

 

Begin by making charcoal and use it to make BP. Good BP! It is the foundation for everything and knowing how to make it, how the various woods change things like speed and sparkyness will give you a lot of experience. I only use lead to mill BP in a dedicated jar. I designate another jar for alumina media and use it to grind individual chemicals.

 

Next make some dextrin out of corn starch. Use it as a binder to granulate your BP and get it sticking to rice hulls.

 

Next, make some Tiger Tail stars. Learn how to cut them, roll them and prime them.

 

Now all you need is some hemis and you can make a shell... All with only four chemicals, two of which you have learned to make yourself. It's really quite a lot of fun, and from here the possibilities expand rapidly.

 

On the subject of flash:

It is largely because of this compound that our hobby has been difficult to keep legitimate. It does have its uses in boosting shell breaks, etc, but it's generally only a pinch, and you can substitute with slow flash or whistle. You will probably be able to get through most of your pyro career on < 1LB of AL powder, so its cost should not be a real concern.

Edited October 29, 2014 by tumbler

[schroedinger]

Like said before, get the ball mill.

Even if you can go without it, later you will realy think why did i skip it!

 

Best start with a mill bigger than the 6 lb tumbler, remember the one who is cheap pays twice.

Better get a 6 lb milll later for processing metals and single chemicals, but making bp with a big mill will give you much more pleasant results and don't underestimate the ammount of bp you will need.

 

Either build your own mill or connect with someone like dag who got experience with a lot of mills.

 

Also if you have a mill you can go and make nozzleless rockets, witch are a real lot of fun and easy to get to work with a ball mill.

 

Also remember that the aluminium powder you get from ball milling is flake stuff, but for glitters you will need atomized. For flake al it is much faster to just use a blender filled with water and al foil strips.

Edited October 29, 2014 by schroedinger

[wildcherryxoxo]

Make sure to get tons and tons of PPE- ill link some so you know you can be safe when you make BP

 

http://www.amazon.com/Macgregor-Varsity-Catcher-Gear-Black/dp/B000J60L9A/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1414687256&sr=8-13&keywords=catchers+gear

http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-26-inch-Nitrile-Chemical-Resistant/dp/B004US9VKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414687323&sr=8-1&keywords=shoulder+length+gloves

http://www.amazon.com/Bucket-Boss-80300-Duckwear-SuperShop/dp/B00GK4U3SO/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1414687358&sr=1-2&keywords=apron

http://www.amazon.com/Steiner-21923-Welding-Y-Series-Shoulder/dp/B00209QLM0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1414687415&sr=8-5&keywords=welding+gloves

http://www.amazon.com/Giros-Savant-Helmet-Silver-Medium/dp/B005I6S09Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414687432&sr=8-1&keywords=road+bike+helmet

 

you could wear the above under a pair of firemans turnouts WITH linings- then you will be safe

Edited October 30, 2014 by wildcherryxoxo

[ddewees]

Chems

[Jakenbake]

WC I have actually been thinking about going this route

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medieval-Knight-Suit-of-Armor-15th-Century-Combat-Full-Body-Armour-Shield-Stand-/251545878266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a914d7efa

 

Just have to figure out a way to get my mill jar open.

[MrB]

1 i don't think a suit of medieval armor is very safe in these terms. To many gaps for fire to pass through, and set the undergarments & padding on fire.

2 I doubt it would actually get used. Making it even less safe. To cumbersome, and taking to long to put on. Knights needed half an hour or more, and they had help. The really elaborate sets took a lot longer then that, but a "regular" set such as the one depicted, about half an hour, with undergarments, padding, and all. A chain-mail can supposedly be put on a lot faster, but i don't think it would protect you very much, so thats prolly just a bad sidetrack...

B!

[Col]

Might present a bit of a spark hazard too.

[BurritoBandito]

I'm pretty sure Jakenbake was joking.

[Bobosan]

Spam in a can.

[MrB]

I'm pretty sure Jakenbake was joking.

Wait... What? Security is no joke. Blasphemy!

You of all people. Shame on you.

B!

[pyroman2498]

WC I have actually been thinking about going this route

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medieval-Knight-Suit-of-Armor-15th-Century-Combat-Full-Body-Armour-Shield-Stand-/251545878266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a914d7efa

 

Just have to figure out a way to get my mill jar open.

LMAO , Im Dying of laughter here jakey !! xD

[AldoSPyro]

I plan to start with flash powder, and then make firecrackers once I get some experience making flash powder.

 

 

I wouldn't start with flash powder, most people don't use flash until a few years after they started making fireworks. I would recommend starting with black powder first, and if you want to make firecrackers black powder is much safer to work with even though it does not work as well as flash does. But I also would not recommend starting with firecrackers either, they aren't good for anything other than getting you into trouble with the law.

Edited November 2, 2014 by AldoSPyro

[schroedinger]

Btw. Cc2014 where are you from that Al powder is so hard to find?

 

Also starting into this hobby with flash is a no go, flash is the most hazardous mixture you normally would ever use in this hobby, handling it needs quite some experience.

 

If you plan on making firecrackers, go with blackpowder, it works really god and with isn't that bad compared to flash. If you need help with the tooling you can write a pn, but like said above these are the items forcing legal troubles, better go with rockets, gerbs, mines or shells.

[ddewees]

if you want a loud bang, start with dry ice...

 

Flash can make a big mess if you have a problem.